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Sgt. Veld

SAW gunners need some serious tweaking

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i close my eyes while firing with the m249 at close range, i think a scream sound and animation should be automatically triggered as well :) 

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The recoil is fine, if it was a laser beam, every one would take it but currently, no ones takes it...

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

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On 06/05/2016 at 4:32 AM, Sgt. Veld said:

Every damn time i encounter these walking rambo's, they got perfect accuracy when walking straight, why have these still not been adjusted? The recoil is seriously too low vs a M4. I see people just walking around like they are in COD spraying their weapon around.

Okay. If we assume that you are correct, then under what circumstances do you feel that the SAW should be clearly superior?

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10 minutes ago, LMR Sahara said:

C'mon man, in every thread whenever there is a comparison between 'this and that' weapons, you're always going on about how much better Soviet Weapons are than Western ones. Just leave it, I don't mean to start a shit storm (and If I did, PM me instead of here), but it's really getting annoying. Whether its a Humvee .50 vs a BTR PK, AP 556 vs AK 7.62, who did what in Iraq, who was wrong this and that - you know people are going to disagree with you and it leaves room open for conflict. Just leave it be unless someone asks for it. 

Wat?

 

1. it's humor. with a little sarcasm.

2. It's not me complaining (or comparing), it's the other guy.

3. The AK is easier to use compared to the AR in game.

4. Every things else is a fruit of your imagination.

 

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Speaking from my experience with the minimi wich is pretty much identical to the m249, the recoil is fairly easy to control even when you fire it standing up. So I dont think the game should add more recoil than there already is. However, I do agree with the earlier suggestions about adding more weapon sway when aiming down sights while standing.

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In all reality (and we are talking about a reality based game aren't we?), the M249 and other LMG variants should (and do) in real life have much less recoil than the lighter carbines and rifles found on the field. The downfall to this, is that when firing an LMG on full auto and it burst it is tough to control. So if we look at this from a logical stand point wouldn't it make sense that the M249 should have less recoil BUT should have very sluggish control and diffcult ADS movement while a player is firing the weapon from an unsupported position (lets say less recoil but the ADS sight has a tendency to kind of move left or right if you burst pass 5 to 7 rounds). Also soldiers playing as LMG class should have slower sprint, slower ADS, faster stamina drain and so forth with all the attributes of a soldier carrying heavier equipment.

Edited by PUNISHER-lll

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I can agree with most of what you've got here... except for the slower run, less stamina, etc. AR Gunners would be left behind by there Squad mates, wouldn't they?

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5 minutes ago, smokyhook said:

I can agree with most of what you've got here... except for the slower run, less stamina, etc. AR Gunners would be left behind by there Squad mates, wouldn't they?

Perhaps, but a squad is only as strong as the weakest link. It would in theory promote more team work. I can be a bit zealous at times though haha!

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14 hours ago, PUNISHER-lll said:

Perhaps, but a squad is only as strong as the weakest link. It would in theory promote more team work. I can be a bit zealous at times though haha!

 

AFAIK the squad devs have nixed different movement speeds for different roles, because it would drive too much of a wedge in between different squad members

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What should be changed is the fact that when firing your MiniMi you should totally be deaf and blind from your 3/6/9. It's just not the case ingame. People lazer react at any sound, while in operation the SAW totally clutters your senses.

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for my part the SAW is absolute fine... the only issue is the weapon model when looking at a player who is using the SAW ... ist bugged since day 1 i guess

but gameplay-wise i see no big reason to change it up big time

Edited by S0NNy

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On 05/06/2016 at 5:10 AM, Sgt. Veld said:

Indeed, these weapons should only be used when mounted on a object, something i am still waiting for. The US side already get better weapons than the other teams and now every squad gets 2 saw gunners as well!

 

no.

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On 6/8/2016 at 7:08 PM, Yukari_Akiyama said:

The M249 needs some buffs, like using a buddies STANAG when out of belts.

 

 

That Mag well was removed for saving weight and reliability.. Only Gen 1 M249 have them.. The SAW that is currently in Squad is something more like a mixx between the MK46 and the conventional SAW you see in the Corp/Army.

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On 5/6/2016 at 4:55 AM, Maki said:

 

It's heavier, has a lower cyclic rate, has a longer barrel than an M4, why would it need more recoil?

 

Because without a gun-weight system and the amount of sway you would have actually firing that gun, aimed in without support, makes it incredibly unbalanced.

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On 7/6/2016 at 5:31 AM, LaughingJack said:

why can't we just have weapons based on the guns they are modelled on? every game seems to be trying to nerf-this or buff-that to satisfy everyone out there, which ends up in a mess. if a SAW has little recoil then so be it, deal with it, otherwise we will end up with a game like most others where the weapons end up a homogineous blend of boringness.

 

 

Because in a semi-realistic game, you cannot always allow exact weapon stats to carry over, when you don't have 100% accurate physics either.

 

And I'm a very strong supporter of what you just said about people fuckin' around with the weapon stats too much, but when there is no fatigue system that creates gun-sway, then you simply cannot have a 200 round AR-hybrid laser gun.

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On 30/6/2016 at 8:10 AM, S0NNy said:

for my part the SAW is absolute fine... the only issue is the weapon model when looking at a player who is using the SAW ... ist bugged since day 1 i guess

but gameplay-wise i see no big reason to change it up big time

 

Are you having that problem with the barrel like hanging down the soldiers leg as well?

 

Huh, thought that was only me.

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On 5/6/2016 at 9:59 AM, Bullroy said:

 

There you can see the saw firing in a stand up position. I think you can clearly see that recoil isnt that much.

 

It is also very nice to keep in mind that this guy didn't just hike 3 miles, carrying 12 or so kg.

 

One thing is to control recoil when you pick up a rifle - Another thing is to control recoil when you're fatigued... Even an AR can give you a knock, if you're drained for energy.

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On 5-6-2016 at 4:32 AM, Sgt. Veld said:

Every damn time i encounter these walking rambo's, they got perfect accuracy when walking straight, why have these still not been adjusted? The recoil is seriously too low vs a M4. I see people just walking around like they are in COD spraying their weapon around.

Don't be silly. This game isn't about balancing weapons end equipment. It's supposed to be close to reality while still bein a game. Here: 

 

Even a girl can shoot it standing up without too much effort

Edited by Pro-Killerbot_Ak_101

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6 hours ago, Pro-Killerbot_Ak_101 said:

Don't be silly. This game isn't about balancing weapons end equipment. It's supposed to be close to reality while still bein a game. Here: 

 

Even a girl can shoot it standing up without too much effort

 

Wow, that makes a great point for lack of vertical recoil with the 249. She was hip firing though.

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On 8.6.2016 at 11:04 AM, lastpuritan said:

IT needs to deplete stamina faster if we sprint w/ that gun. Easy counter for rambos. 

 

I think they're already planning on implementing an inventory/weight system that also impacts stamina.

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Here are some ideas for SAWs, though this list is more applicable to the M249 than the RPKs:


1. Make the recoil much lower, from low while standing to almost nonexistent when prone/resting (true to the real M249, makes it more effective as a suppression tool as it becomes much scarier when someone opens fire at you with one)

2. Increase the transition time from hip to ADS, as well as sprint to not-sprint. The sprint part could be visually represented by making the player hold it by the carrying handle, perhaps. Increasing the transition times would make it less practical as a CQB Rambo tool.

3. When weapon resting is implemented, increase sway quite heftily when you're not resting.

4. Make the sway increase from fatigue more unforgiving. Can be counteracted by going prone/resting weapon. The more prepared the gunner is, the easier to aim it is.

5. DO NOT give SAW gunners a major stamina penalty. It would just slow down the squad as a whole which ain't fun.

 

In other words, the best way IMO to make SAWs and LMGs effective in their role as suppressive weapons is to make them extremely powerful (and accurate) when the gunner is prepared, but give them major penalties for run-and-gunning.

Current SAWs are too quick to use in CQB, making them basically like assault rifles with much more capacity. At range, the recoil is too great (especially when standing/crouching) to allow for accurate bursts that could effectively suppress/kill a target. When the chances of getting hit at a distance are slim, you're far more likely to shoot back instead of hunker down.

Edited by Jazzpirat
whole not hole

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