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Scope Implementation Discussion

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@SgtRoss You guys definitely made the right decision, no doubt about that. Question, is the scope on SVD going to be opened up at all? The FOV is pretty ridiculously low at the moment compared the the US DMR. I understand it might be realistic, but for balance reasons I was wondering if this was something you guys were looking at?

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Definitely the right call, what are those fancy scopes good for if i can't hit my targets because of low res and framedrops?

But please keep the SVD scope as realistic as possible :o

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@SgtRoss You guys definitely made the right decision, no doubt about that. Question, is the scope on SVD going to be opened up at all? The FOV is pretty ridiculously low at the moment compared the the US DMR. I understand it might be realistic, but for balance reasons I was wondering if this was something you guys were looking at?

 

Everything is open for discussion at this point, this is just the first step in creating functional optics. We want to make sure we get good play testing and feedback on this stuff. 

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Everything is open for discussion at this point, this is just the first step in creating functional optics. We want to make sure we get good play testing and feedback on this stuff.

Oh absolutely, not bashing here at all, just curious about how you might feel personally about the current implementation. Thanks for the response!

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I like the change and think it's a good move in the right direction.

 

But what I like even more is that the devs made a topic about it to give insight and an explanation as to why it was changed...which I'm sure was helpful to keep people from getting angry and butt hurt about the change.

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Right call, while R2P scopes are doable in some odd coding and heavy engine poking (I don't know, i'm just a believer) the current classic scope with blur around feel much more natural and more spot on.

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I'm completely fine with the decision that's been made. One of the things squad needs is rock solid performance. Good to see the overwhelming postive comments on how you've handled the problem

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Can we have post from devs explaining things in more detail as where the direction of the game is heading?

Please start a new thread and be specific if you are looking for specific answers.

Cheers!

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Looking at more recent build gameplay and reversion to 3D scopes/zoom, it's really quite irksome to see a giant front sight post blocking the lower 1/3rd of your vision, (as well as the lower portions of the BDC!) when magnified optics themselves already seem to have little to no magnification.  I really wish something could be done about that.  

The only 'solution' I see to my little issue regarding it is to either blur the front sight post when using the optic, or perhaps just remove the front sight post entirely for those models with magnifying optics..  Something.  Either way... egh.

 

Just wish we could have PiP at a later date, I guess, or somehow at the user's choosing.

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I really hope with get PiP scopes, I hate only being able to look into the scope, I want to quickly be able to see around the area, but also I want the optic to actually function, not just the screen zoomed in.

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@SgtRoss You guys definitely made the right decision, no doubt about that. Question, is the scope on SVD going to be opened up at all? The FOV is pretty ridiculously low at the moment compared the the US DMR. I understand it might be realistic, but for balance reasons I was wondering if this was something you guys were looking at?

 

I am aware of this issue, and it is all down to field of view. The screen space does not really allow us to portray how you view the scope IRL with amount of "space inside of the scope". I have some things I want to try, but they require quite a bit of work to pull off.

 

Also the issue is down to not being able to properly do lens magnification to maximize the zoomed viewable area inside of the scope - (something that is even a step beyond R2T scopes!!).

 

I don't really feel like going in to too much detail and write a long essay that wont be read anyway. The handful of people that are passionate about this stuff are either hating the decision and do not care what compromises we do when it comes to the whole screen being zoomed, or hasn't even read what I wrote in the initial post, either way my time is not spent in a productive manner detailing everything.

 

Like I said, this is only the beginning, I have only just started to put optics in game since putting our R2T efforts on hold.

 

EDIT: The best compromise is actually the most old school version of doing scopes - a texture that takes up the whole screen, like what BF2 used to have before we switched over to 3d scopes. But noone wants to go back to this, it isnt as seamless either.

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As long as you are aware, I'm not going to fuss about how realistic this or that scope is. I would just like to be able to effectively use it, I trust we're in good hands here and I appreciate the response :)

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On my desk in front of me there are 2 match grade rifle scopes, 2 hunting scopes and a reflex sight + a masters degree in design and user interaction.

 

I'm doing the very best I can to make everyone has happy as I can :)

 

EDIT: I have just changed where the camera views the PSO-1 scope from which gives you a less confusing - albeit still not 100% realistic - sight picture.

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R2T looks like garbage in my opinion. I hated it in Insurgency, and suspected it was wank for performance.

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I am very pleased with your decision to focus on different goals. The 3d scopes we have now in squad (and for some time in PR) seems to me like a more practical way to do it anyway.

There are some disadvantages that come with it like the FOV limitation but from game play stand point that at least put more weight into the decision between magnified and CQB sights setup.

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Good decision. I'm sure many players will need all the PC performance they can muster from their machines. I know I will.  ;)

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R2T looks like garbage in my opinion. I hated it in Insurgency, and suspected it was wank for performance.

What exactly looked like garbage, if you wouldn't mind explaining further?  Sure, the designs of the scope were quite simple (And to be honest, I had switched one of the lesser magnifying optics out for an Elcan), but it was executed well.  Game still ran incredibly smoothly too.

 

 

EDIT: I have just changed where the camera views the PSO-1 scope from which gives you a less confusing - albeit still not 100% realistic - sight picture.

What do you mean by less confusing?  The only real problem from what I've seen is that the reticle ends up being tiny and there's a huge amount of shadow as if someone's looking into it with too mugh eye relief.  Really hope it doesn't mean the actual reticle has changed.

 

Seems to be a bi-product of going back to 3D scopes from PiP, and the length of distance between the viewer and the objective lens/assembly, since the PSO-1 is a rather long optic.  Could you just move the reticle closer to the viewer and reduce shadow instead to make it clearer, since the reticle acts as the objective assembly in the scopes?  This would give a much wider field of view.

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Good decision. I'm sure many players will need all the PC performance they can muster from their machines. I know I will.  ;)

 

me too! ;)

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What exactly looked like garbage, if you wouldn't mind explaining further?  Sure, the designs of the scope were quite simple (And to be honest, I had switched one of the lesser magnifying optics out for an Elcan), but it was executed well.  Game still ran incredibly smoothly too.

 

 

 

So, in general, the render texture (the bit that is displayed on the scope... the 'picture' in the picture) must be at a much lower resolution than the rest of the screen to have a good framerate.  Like, we are talking over 80% lower resolution (eg: 1920x1080 main screen to 256x256 scope, an 86% reduction in resolution of the world), and that still drops us far below 60fps.   Take any picture of a game and render it at 256x256, and you'd agree it looks like garbage.  It's all pixelated and gross.  

 

 

If we bump up the resolution, the 'render cost' (or, how much time it takes to render the frame) goes up exponentially.  If we had a full resolution render texture, we'd just half our FPS, taking us down into the 20-30fps range.. and that's not counting the render cost of other effects like foliage, particles, and water effects.  That's not acceptable to a majority of you, and it's completely not acceptable for us.  

 

Unfortunately, things like this are the reality of making a game.  You can't do everything, even with an amazing engine like UE4.  

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Snip

Something more like this although this PSO doesn't seem to have the rubber eye protection thing. At the moment the scope image in Squad is very small (I know its WIP, just feedback)

Pso-1onsvd.jpg

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Something more like this although this PSO doesn't seem to have the rubber eye protection thing. At the moment the scope image in Squad is very small (I know its WIP, just feedback)

Pso-1onsvd.jpg

Chuc confirmée that the SVD scope was stil WIP. Is the size could as your pict, it would be perfect. Btw, what is the zoom magnifier on the PSO1?

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4x, and all scopes are HEAVILY WIP. Many more updates to come here, just thought I would announce that we are going in a different direction than what we started with.

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