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Z-trooper

Scope Implementation Discussion

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Finally a decision in this matter... And it is a good one.

Keep up the good work.

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A shame, but I guess that's just the nature of game development. It was a good move from you guys to make a thread about it, it answered all of my questions. Even though it's using the same technique as PR, it looks way better in UE4 for some reason. Ya win some ya lose some, but it's not biggie

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Too bad PIP scopes lead to poor performance, they're 100% better than the 'traditional' scopes in every other way.

 

What a shame. Good call though, can always come back to it later. 

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Sounds like a logical decision when weighed up against all the factors. Can always come back to PiP scopes if you make some tech breakthrough later down the line. 

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Glad you guys are liking it. None of the 100 people that tested it today had any regrets about it either, all positive feedback. Very positive actually.

 

Glad you guys understand what is going on, I know there are some die hard people out there that won't like it, but I guess they are taking their rage elsewhere, or just haven't seen the changes yet :)

Scopes were rolled out to Rifleman, any plans for the SL to get the same?

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I hope the acog texture can get an improvement though, you will constantly be looking through it so it would be great if it was more detailed.

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The scopes looks great Z-trooper, how difficult is it to enable the shadows that are on objects and environment through the scope? since the shadows are only being rendered around the player will there be shadows for scopes that will zoom further ie the sniper and marksmen scopes.

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Hi Z-Trooper,

 

I have a thread here with some questions regarding scopes, but your FAQ has since answered some of them. Since you mention the SVD has a functional scope, do you mean fully functional? IE, is the stadiametric rangefinder correctly calibrated? Does the scope zero from 100m to 1000m? Do the chevrons correctly represent 1100, 1200, 1300m? And, can the player toggle between the SVD's reticle and the SVD's ironsights without removing the scope?

 

Thanks,

 

Bek

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In the future when we have done more work on the ballistics I hope to make all weapons reticles work as they do IRL, including the SVD. Many reticles has built in range finders, it wont be an easy thing to do for sure.

 

We also want to have back up sights for all weapons that can use it.

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That's a great disappointment after so much hype about it and expectations. Oh well, fastropes implementation should make up for it.  

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i love the third picture, its awsome and its very realistic because your eye isnt into the scope but near,and as soon as you have 2 eyes and not only one you can largely see all around:D i will accept any developers decision as soon as i think they are very competent and they exactly know what do we want. So guys im with you every choose you will apply;)

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Thanks for both keeping us abreast of the situation and detailing the rationale and challenges. It really seems to me that this is the best option, at this juncture, for the overall health of the project and community! I really appreciate the time you guys must have spent troubleshooting and iterating on this problem - both in terms of actual development and internal debate / discussion.

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I understand that the sight picture above isnt the final product, but If the final product looks something like this http://s245.photobucket.com/user/gi57/media/M4-2000/P4171834.jpg.html but with a blur effect around the edges of the scope, then i'd be ecstatic. 

 

Also i'd love to see R2T as an option on sniper or designated marksman kits. But all in all, good decision. Function over form!

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Too bad PIP scopes lead to poor performance, they're 100% better than the 'traditional' scopes in every other way.

 

What a shame. Good call though, can always come back to it later. 

My thoughts exactly.  A shame, but oh well.  Maybe some day.  Was really looking forward to the ways that using UE4 would set this apart from BF2's/ Standalone PR.

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In the future when we have done more work on the ballistics I hope to make all weapons reticles work as they do IRL, including the SVD. Many reticles has built in range finders, it wont be an easy thing to do for sure.

 

We also want to have back up sights for all weapons that can use it.

 

Cool; thanks for the answer. It should be fairly easy to get the SVD's stadiametric rangerfinder working — things like having the ACOG posts correctly zeroed for 5.56 will be a little bit more tedious but it's certainly not hard. When I did those reticles for breaking point it only took a few trips to the editor to get the scale right — place a human target at 100m intervals from 200m to 1000, take screenshots of the reticle over those targets, correct the scale in photoshop... it should only take a few iterations to get right. But obviously you'd want to do that once ballistics are set in stone. But it shouldn't take longer than an hour or so of work.

 

(You could also use the linetrace function in UE4 when zeroing posts; or some sort of bullet cam to make adjustments clearer)

 

mil dots might take a bit more thought because if you have a first focal plane scope and you allow say two levels of fixed zoom (highest and lowest), you'll need to adjust the scale to match those levels of zoom. You could do this by providing two separate textures for each level (which also has the benefit of giving you more control over line thickness at different levels of zoom, but that's not exactly realistic for FFP optics), or adjust the scale of the one texture in some way (not too sure how 2d overlays work but it should be possible; if geometry is used you'd just adjust the uv's). If the game engine could somehow take a vector image that'd be perfect because you could allow variable zoom and you'd only have to set it up once for it to work at any amount of magnification.

 

Annnnd just thinking about it now the easiest way to get mildots correctly scaled would be to throw a 1.7m tall target 200m away (and with a simple amount of magnification like 1x or 10x) from the camera and adjusting your source texture to read 8.5 mils (Or, whatever other distance gives you a fairly simple result, like 2m tall target at 500m = 4 mils). Then if you go to setup another mil dot reticle with a different amount of magnification like 24x you can simply scale up your source texture by the difference.

 

edit: Since a poster above mentioned PIP for marksmen scopes only; the other benefit of that would be that doing FFP reticles with correct mils would most likely be easier with that method — easier in the sense that you'd only need to set the one texture up correctly and somehow place that infront of the PIP camera, rather than make separate textures for different amounts of magnification.

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I for one can live with this for better fps in general. Tactical Battlefield runs at 20 fps on my pc and if Squad was the same I'd have to stop playing.

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Yeah, I think most of us that experienced the scopes can attest that unfortunately they just didn't work well enough yet. I can't imagine anyone who did would be upset at this change.

It's unfortunate, but totally understandable and out of the devs control. Maybe when DX12 rolls around, though... :P

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I understand that the sight picture above isnt the final product, but If the final product looks something like this http://s245.photobucket.com/user/gi57/media/M4-2000/P4171834.jpg.html but with a blur effect around the edges of the scope, then i'd be ecstatic. 

 

Also i'd love to see R2T as an option on sniper or designated marksman kits. But all in all, good decision. Function over form!

 

Z-Trooper is already trying to find a solution to achieve a similar effect with the front sight post being blurred and whatnot.

 

Z and I are both shooters IRL, so most of these decisions will have a healthy balance between realism and gameplay. We both agreed to go ahead and take this route, it was a relatively quick fix that gave us functional long range optics and was a big motivator for the team to start working on US DMRs (oooooo ;)  ).

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