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Movement speed is too high for this game. I agree with that.

 

They already said the movement speed will decrease when vehicles introduced to the game. And this is a good way for theese large maps.

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2 hours ago, unfrail said:


Simmer down a bit.

There are no vehicles. No vehicles = more running. Stamina and speed will be adjusted when vehicles are in.
So also will spawning be adjusted, because there will be logistics, which also requires vehicles.

So basically... we're playing an alpha, and a lot of work needs to be done before what we have resembles the final product.

 

I understand it is still in the making but it would be nice if the infantry aspect, which is the core part of the game, would be more like PR.

 

I see where you are coming from, but still:

 

The maps in squad are smaller for one - so you could say they are made for just infantry. No need to blame lack of vehicles for the gameplay.

Also, lack of vehicles should make no difference to shooting mechanics, weapon stabilization (or lack of) or acrobatic-marathon-sprinter behavior. The maps are small and both Rally Points and FOBs can be placed anyway in an instant. So again, lack of vehicles should not influence all these points this drastically.

 

Some of these changes seem a matter of just changing a few parameters. And seeing as a lot of good effort was spent on nice looking things like the particle effects, smoke behavior the bending foliage which is still in the making, water effects... it seems like what perhaps only I consider to be serious issues with the gameplay is not a priority at all. Perhaps they won't be addressed until we approach final release.

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You guys don't understand that there are different skill sets on a development team. Artist resources are likely a lot less scarce than guys who can write network code. In general I would bet that programming resources on the team are more scarce than any other type of resource. These are also folks who have day jobs for the most part.

 

A game like Squad is not going to be made by a commercial studio because it is simply far too expensive for what will ultimately be a niche game. Maybe 500k copies will sell. That might sound like $20,000,000 to you, but keep in mind that figure is about what a small "AAA" title costs to develop (I work in the gaming industry and - believe me - games like CoD, FIFA, Battlefield, Destiny spend a lot more on game dev than that). And then there are costs like licensing, wages, operating costs, non development staff, marketing, etc. In most cases those are a multiple of the game development cost. So to get the game that folks around here want requires a small studio of passionate gamers. Along with that comes a need to release the game commercially in Early Access mode in order to fund the project - there are no millionair benefactors sponsoring the project.

 

To post in these threads things like "seems simple"... "just a few parameters"... etc... it's not as simple as that ;) There are times when something lower in priority is being worked on because the resources are available. The things that are higher in priority might not be getting worked on because they require specialist resources or other sub-systems to be put in place first. And there are times when you go down a path and realize... "Fuck... that didn't work" and have to rethink the approach.

 

Folks seem to forget this is an Alpha. In my view this game is 16 months away from being a "one point oh feature complete beta". While optimization is best done all the way through, there are times when you are trying new stuff that optimization will come after you prove out the viability of the basic concept. Typically you have things at different levels of maturity through the iterative development cycle. Eventually they will ladder up to be a complete game, but you have to remember you bought into an early access game, not a complete game.

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28 minutes ago, eggman said:

You guys don't understand that there are different skill sets on a development team. Artist resources are likely a lot less scarce than guys who can write network code. In general I would bet that programming resources on the team are more scarce than any other type of resource. These are also folks who have day jobs for the most part.

 

A game like Squad is not going to be made by a commercial studio because it is simply far too expensive for what will ultimately be a niche game. Maybe 500k copies will sell. That might sound like $20,000,000 to you, but keep in mind that figure is about what a small "AAA" title costs to develop (I work in the gaming industry and - believe me - games like CoD, FIFA, Battlefield, Destiny spend a lot more on game dev than that). And then there are costs like licensing, wages, operating costs, non development staff, marketing, etc. In most cases those are a multiple of the game development cost. So to get the game that folks around here want requires a small studio of passionate gamers. Along with that comes a need to release the game commercially in Early Access mode in order to fund the project - there are no millionair benefactors sponsoring the project.

 

To post in these threads things like "seems simple"... "just a few parameters"... etc... it's not as simple as that ;) There are times when something lower in priority is being worked on because the resources are available. The things that are higher in priority might not be getting worked on because they require specialist resources or other sub-systems to be put in place first. And there are times when you go down a path and realize... "Fuck... that didn't work" and have to rethink the approach.

 

Folks seem to forget this is an Alpha. In my view this game is 16 months away from being a "one point oh feature complete beta". While optimization is best done all the way through, there are times when you are trying new stuff that optimization will come after you prove out the viability of the basic concept. Typically you have things at different levels of maturity through the iterative development cycle. Eventually they will ladder up to be a complete game, but you have to remember you bought into an early access game, not a complete game.

 

I agree with what you say. But compared to what has already been accomplished, something like adding an expiry timer to Rally Points or making it so you don't spawn on a hostile FOB at all (instead of adding 10s to spawn timer for every enemy in FOB - increase radius and block spawn as in PR) does seem trivial. My point was this does not seem to be something they want to have in Squad as they did in PR yet those little things all accomplish the greater good that is a slower gameplay pace where you do not kill or die every few seconds and other things mentioned in previous post.

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1 hour ago, MistaX32 said:

The maps in squad are smaller for one - so you could say they are made for just infantry. No need to blame lack of vehicles for the gameplay.

Also, lack of vehicles should make no difference to shooting mechanics, weapon stabilization (or lack of) or acrobatic-marathon-sprinter behavior. The maps are small and both Rally Points and FOBs can be placed anyway in an instant. So again, lack of vehicles should not influence all these points this drastically.

 

You are comparing two games at very different stages of development.

 

The map will be much larger when finished. The reason they're small is quite obvious if you think about it. 

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MistaX32, I can tell you that the devs have said in other threads that the following will be changed. I think the result will be the slower and more strategic game that you're looking for. I'm not going to go digging for the sources, though, and will just do this from memory.

 

- Movement speed will be lowered after vehicles will be introduced and they will probably add more momentum. HOWEVER, they have to finish rewriting the animation system before they overhaul movement. In any case, expect movement to get overhauled.

- Sgt. Ross said that he will personally hit the range and that the weapon handling system will be reviewed over the next few months. I believe he said that this system will probably be overhauled and *maybe* include a dead zone like Supreme suggested. Weapon collision and bipods will also be implemented, obviously. This stuff is also dependent on the animation system.

 

Basically, the point is that they have to finish rewriting the animation system first (the first one they wrote is supposedly really inefficient) before the stuff you're criticizing can be fixed. Fixing it now would be a waste of time because they would have to fix it AGAIN after the new anim system got implemented. At least that's how I understand things from reading the forums.

 

- Also, about the small maps. Kohat and Chora are already pretty damn big. And they're working on an absolutely huge one for combined arms warfare so check the monthly recaps. PR has it's share of smallish maps as well and Squad will get more big maps as time goes on.

- The spammy FOB respawn system that often leads to massive spawn killing and battles of attrition I'm also unsure about but it's all WIP.

 

By the way, where the hell did Ostboll go? He fired up this shit storm and then just left us to argue with each other! :P

 

 

Edited by fatalsushi

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23 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

 

By the way, where the hell did Ostboll go? He fired up this shit storm and then just left us to argue with each other! :P

 

 

Hahaha, that's just like him too if my memory serves me right! Probably got whatever it was he wanted and then left.

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21 hours ago, shawn7186 said:

And you need to reply to a thousand more threads like this. Its what your paid for isn't it!?. And when I say paid for I mean with the money that we the community posting the same threads have donated.  

 

 

FACE-PALM!!!! 

 

 

 

Unless your doing this voluntarily, then I deserve a slap!!!  

 

You heard him, somebody volunteer to slap this bloke.

Most of us here on the forum volunteer our time to deal with... this... 

 

 

 

 

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Eh. Since this one is a hot topic, quick questions:

 

1 - Will there be any change on right click aim / scope / zoom combination? I can't address it but something feels terribly wrong with it. 
2-  Can we expect animations for getting shot? I mean, since there is no hit indicators, and sometimes blood isn't visible, I'm not sure if I hit the target, it feels like i couldn't, but only when he dies or tries to bandage himself, I understand I shot him. And most of the times it makes me think game has bad netcode (which i believe not the case) 

If any member happens to know about these, thanks in advance. 
 

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20 hours ago, Dubs said:

Or that handy search function in the top right could be used to carry on the on going conversation in a past thread, instead of creating another thread with everything repeated that creates this on-going cycle of repetitive threads. 

The information is here for us to see in past threads. It's like asking for a history book to be re written because others are too lazy to go to the library and find the book themselves, which in end would be less time consuming as the answers/info are already there for you to see.

 

If that was the case I wouldn't have to write papers for college classes that address the same issue/topic with my twist of ideals, now would I? Please I'm not saying you have to, but please don't try and twist reality to validate your own way of thinking.

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3 hours ago, FreezerGeezer said:

 

You heard him, somebody volunteer to slap this bloke.

Most of us here on the forum volunteer our time to deal with... this... 

 

 

 

 

I wont even flinch if your telling the truth!

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Count yourselves unfortunate that you didn't have the joy of playing the game when there was no prone......

 

Pretty much 50% of the infantry aspects in the game are place holders. Place holders put out by the devs to allow us to play the game. Fucking brilliant marketing if you ask me. Give the supporters a solid infantry game to tide them over until things are polished. The game has certainly sold enough copies on that very basis.

 

That 50% will be changing, from the animations to the amount of stamina and speed. There's plenty of good replies in here indicating what to expect in the not-too-distant future. It wasn't too long ago that the jumping mechanic was redone. Why? Because the previous was a placeholder.

Asking people to have patience is a perfectly acceptable response, given the devs track record of putting out much needed changes is hardly a pace to question. Just because things aren't getting done as quick as some would like (understandable given the resources the dev team have) or they aren't being done within time to pander to a small % of the community, doesn't mean things aren't being done. And the "have faith in our devs" is backed up by the consistent transparency they give through their interaction with the community. And just because you can't be arsed looking for it doesn't mean it isn't there to be found.

 

Addition: It's a shame we don't have signatures anymore. Z-Troopers old "a kind reminder we have 2 years left of development" would be handy right about now

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14 minutes ago, shawn7186 said:

I wont even flinch if your telling the truth!

The Moderators, particularly Geeze, are paid in hate. The more we annoy them, and post repetitive comments and make inciting, spiteful topics, they will remain contented.

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16 hours ago, Seamoo said:


Have you ever actually fired an AR-15? It has some of the smallest recoil and it still bounces around.

I can only accurately hit a target at about 40-50yards while "decently" rapid firing, about 2 shots a second, and by accurately I mean bullets all over the torso randomly.

I can fire way faster and more deadly in this game than in real life.

I found a vid :)

 

 

Yes, I own an AR that I put at least 10,000 rounds through every year. I also on a PM md.63 (an AKM variant that makes an appearance in the game) and can reliably say that I believe the AR's recoil is extremely exaggerated and that the AK's recoil is ever so slightly exaggerated. My AR didn't bounce around even before I but that muzzle brake on there. It's pretty damn close to the military setup in terms of barrel length, profile, overall weight, optic, and a few other things, but having fired military spec M4s I can say that they also lack the insane recoil in this game. 

 

YOU might only be able to hit a target every 2 seconds at 40-50 yards, but if that's all you can muster in the military then guess who's not going to be making marksmanship quals. 

 

 

Here's a video of me shooting my buddy's LWRC Piston (aka shit) AR15 with an EOTech at about 75m. I was standing, in a pretty crappy stance, and yet I still managed to ding shots on target. This is what I would consider a decent fire rate for 75-100m shooting in game, though definitely not from a standing position. Also, the recoil in this video is highly exaggerated because of my stance and the fact that it's a piston driven AR15 rather than my AR15. I've got more videos I could post, though. 

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Eh. Since this one is a hot topic, quick questions:

 

1 - Will there be any change on right click aim / scope / zoom combination? I can't address it but something feels terribly wrong with it. 

2-  Can we expect animations for getting shot? I mean, since there is no hit indicators, and sometimes blood isn't visible, I'm not sure if I hit the target, it feels like i couldn't, but only when he dies or tries to bandage himself, I understand I shot him. And most of the times it makes me think game has bad netcode (which i believe not the case) 

If any member happens to know about these, thanks in advance. 

 

No.1: maybe, i don't know

No.2: you have for yourself a hitindicator. Your blood rushes in your ears, and you know you have to bandage yourself. Hitindicator for enemys: this won't happen

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1 hour ago, lastpuritan said:

1 - Will there be any change on right click aim / scope / zoom combination? I can't address it but something feels terribly wrong with it. 
2-  Can we expect animations for getting shot? I mean, since there is no hit indicators, and sometimes blood isn't visible, I'm not sure if I hit the target, it feels like i couldn't, but only when he dies or tries to bandage himself, I understand I shot him. And most of the times it makes me think game has bad netcode (which i believe not the case)

 

1. I am really not sure what you're referring to. All games tend to feel different in their aiming mechanics it may just be you prefer another games way of doing it. I have bound my sprint & zoom to the same key. It's just what I am used to from my CoD days when you used steady aim. Maybe that might help you.

2. The animations are being reworked so I'd like to think rag doll effects would be part of that update. Currently there doesn't seem to be much difference between a target going down through incapacitation or just going prone although in RL there isn't much difference either. Maybe the devs will be adding flinching when hit in the future I can't say for sure.

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5 hours ago, FreezerGeezer said:

 

You heard him, somebody volunteer to slap this bloke.

 

 

 

 

 

...hehe...

AASTONPDUM_400.gif

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The Moderators, particularly Geeze, are paid in hate. The more we annoy them, and post repetitive comments and make inciting, spiteful topics, they will remain contented.

Thats just a silly statement...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

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@Soulzz You're probably right that Cheesy doesn't highlight things but, as the moderators are unpaid, without something to moderate they don't have anything more to do than the rest of us here. They must enjoy the responsibility of keeping us all in order or else why do it. It ain't for the money.

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6 hours ago, BLITZA said:

Count yourselves unfortunate that you didn't have the joy of playing the game when there was no prone......

 

Pretty much 50% of the infantry aspects in the game are place holders. Place holders put out by the devs to allow us to play the game. Fucking brilliant marketing if you ask me. Give the supporters a solid infantry game to tide them over until things are polished. The game has certainly sold enough copies on that very basis.

 

That 50% will be changing, from the animations to the amount of stamina and speed. There's plenty of good replies in here indicating what to expect in the not-too-distant future. It wasn't too long ago that the jumping mechanic was redone. Why? Because the previous was a placeholder.

Asking people to have patience is a perfectly acceptable response, given the devs track record of putting out much needed changes is hardly a pace to question. Just because things aren't getting done as quick as some would like (understandable given the resources the dev team have) or they aren't being done within time to pander to a small % of the community, doesn't mean things aren't being done. And the "have faith in our devs" is backed up by the consistent transparency they give through their interaction with the community. And just because you can't be arsed looking for it doesn't mean it isn't there to be found.

 

Addition: It's a shame we don't have signatures anymore. Z-Troopers old "a kind reminder we have 2 years left of development" would be handy right about now

 

^Bravo!!.

tumblr_n4iuliOlHb1tziei6o1_500.gif

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I also thinks it's pretty unfair this thing people do. Compare indie game performance to AAA games.

 

EA have money to pay the best programers in the world to optimize their game. Those dudes must make miracles. So it's not the indie games that are poorly optimized, it's the AAA that are results of dozen millions of dollars in investiment.

 

I mean, think about your job, what you do for living. I bet there's an asian guy that can do that a lot better =P. Imagine if your boss keep bashing saying that you suck because some asian guys can do that better?

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5 minutes ago, andreher said:

EA have money to pay the best programers in the world to optimize their game. Those dudes must make miracles. So it's not the indie games that are poorly optimized, it's the AAA that are results of dozen millions of dollars in investiment.

 

If that was the absolute reason then why do AAA games launch these days with so many day one problems. It's a little more complicated than you suggest but your right that the big players have more resources available to get things done with. 

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After five pages this crap is finally dying down. Thank you to everyone who kept their big boy pants on and contributed a thoughtful post on this thread!

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