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Rekosaurus Rex

Trenches & more base-building assets

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Kind of had a few small(ish) ideas about base-building. I think that trenches would be an awesome addition to a squad leaders base-building menu (pretty much says it all), squad should also include some other base-building options like watch towers (snipers nests), platforms, bunkers, etc.

 

They should organise the base-building menu a bit better and have sub-menus or categories (like the map icon menu that squad leaders have), with names such as sandbags, defensive (emplacements), towers, etc. In those names (categories) you would find more assets. Just an idea.

Edited by Rekosaurus Rex

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This has allready been discussed a couple of times. Try searching for 'trenches' or 'fox holes' on the forums.
Long story short: deformation of the ground would demand some pretty heavy calculations and a lot of work to implement, especially on servers with a lot of people. So that's a no-go at the moment.

 

Edit: I managed to find a quote from one of the dev's about fox holes/trenches:
"Would be pretty cool. terrain deformation is probably expensive as hell. 

I have been keeping my eyes open for a ue4 project that is doing it so I can get the research done for us."

 

Edit 2: quote from another dev:

"I've done some research into terrain deformation some time ago on a personal project.  It's not simple, requires an engine change (to un-editoronly some landscape collision code and expose it in a clean way to game code), and is VERY slow once you do it.  Like, 300-ish ms to generate collisions for one chunk of landscape terrain.  Not pretty.  

 

I've also looked into terrain holes and patching them with a mesh.  This is possible but you are limited to a fixed number of possible holes in the terrain as UE4 does not support array types in their materials.  If Epic were to add this feature to their engine, it'd make a ton of things possible like dynamic terrain holes at runtime.  

 

There are some solutions and none of them are viable for Squad.

 

That doesn't mean, though, there can't be like a foxhole or bunker object that players can deploy.  It just wont go into terrain without some serious work."

 

They are planning on expanding the base-building with some emplacements etc, but towers and stuf, I don't know about that...

Edited by MVPiet13

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3 hours ago, MVPiet13 said:

This has allready been discussed a couple of times. Try searching for 'trenches' or 'fox holes' on the forums.
Long story short: deformation of the ground would demand some pretty heavy calculations and a lot of work to implement, especially on servers with a lot of people. So that's a no-go at the moment.

 

Edit: I managed to find a quote from one of the dev's about fox holes/trenches:
"Would be pretty cool. terrain deformation is probably expensive as hell. 

I have been keeping my eyes open for a ue4 project that is doing it so I can get the research done for us."

 

Edit 2: quote from another dev:

"I've done some research into terrain deformation some time ago on a personal project.  It's not simple, requires an engine change (to un-editoronly some landscape collision code and expose it in a clean way to game code), and is VERY slow once you do it.  Like, 300-ish ms to generate collisions for one chunk of landscape terrain.  Not pretty.  

 

I've also looked into terrain holes and patching them with a mesh.  This is possible but you are limited to a fixed number of possible holes in the terrain as UE4 does not support array types in their materials.  If Epic were to add this feature to their engine, it'd make a ton of things possible like dynamic terrain holes at runtime.  

 

There are some solutions and none of them are viable for Squad.

 

That doesn't mean, though, there can't be like a foxhole or bunker object that players can deploy.  It just wont go into terrain without some serious work."

 

They are planning on expanding the base-building with some emplacements etc, but towers and stuf, I don't know about that...

Gee thanks for the detailed response, just to be clear I did check to see if there were topics on this already and it only came up with stuff about a ww2 mod. Other than that I completely agree on that ground deformation can be an expensive implementation, but I'm sure if the devs are committed enough they could probably find a way to work around it. I do like your idea of bunkers and when I say watch towers I'm not really talking about massive watch towers or anything like that, more of like a platform that is levelled over the ground a bit more, like a nest or something for snipers.

Edited by Rekosaurus Rex

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Interesting information @MVPiet13. I wonder if that terrain/mesh patching method can be done another way, by using a mask for the terrain shader coupled with selective disabling of collision. Could you tell me which developer made the second statement?

 

As for other FOB construction assets...

I had an interesting game with [WAR]Toma18 today. I mentioned that I though that razor wire was a bit too hard to lay out in a reasonable manner. What I mean is that you can't cover a large area with it, unless you spend an unreasonable amount of time. This makes it almost useless when you use it on anything other than pre-existing structures because it takes so much time to make it long enough that it starts to act as an effective deterrent. I'm thinking that to use razor wire to it's full potential you would place a long string of them about 40 m away from your defensive positions. This long string would take ages to make when using the current system.

 

Toma18 had the idea that maybe construction sticks could be placed not only as a single point with an orientation, but as poly-line as well. Instead of placing three separate sandbag positions you place three connected lines that represents a connected wall. This way fortification layouts could be placed much faster.

Edited by 3e58i

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4 hours ago, 3e58i said:

Interesting information @MVPiet13. I wonder if that terrain/mesh patching method can be done another way, by using a mask for the terrain shader coupled with selective disabling of collision. Could you tell me which developer made the second statement?

 

As for other FOB construction assets...

I had an interesting game with [WAR]Toma18 today. I mentioned that I though that razor wire was a bit too hard to lay out in a reasonable manner. What I mean is that you can't cover a large area with it, unless you spend an unreasonable amount of time. This makes it almost useless when you use it on anything other than pre-existing structures because it takes so much time to make it long enough that it starts to act as an effective deterrent. I'm thinking that to use razor wire to it's full potential you would place a long string of them about 40 m away from your defensive positions. This long string would take ages to make when using the current system.

 

Toma18 had the idea that maybe construction sticks could be placed not only as a single point with an orientation, but as poly-line as well. Instead of placing three separate sandbag positions you place three connected lines that represents a connected wall. This way fortification layouts could be placed much faster.

 

That's actually a great idea for linear deployables. As it is, the vast majority of construction happens in small compounds, and a lot of that is because of the chokepointed and confined nature, allowing SLs to bypass the awkwardness of the construction system as much as possible.  Allowing an easier and faster system, especially for low cost deployables like sandbags and razor wire would result in the speedy setup of OPs and proper defense in depth, rather than the killhouses we have now.

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Why deformation of the ground ? Making a trench poping out of the ground is much more easy !

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35 minutes ago, Rafy800 said:

Why deformation of the ground ? Making a trench poping out of the ground is much more easy !

 

Yes, but it wouldn't be a trench then ;) Trenches are the kind of feature I think we'll see a ways down the road.

 

20111007afghan-016.jpg

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So instead of having it below ground make it like a shellscrape that just has some dirt mounds raised instead of having the ground cut out from underneath.

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Once mortars are in game, that's the only way you're going to maintain an FOB, with trenches and sheltered emplacements. So I'm down for the idea of a tall trench mound, it seems unrealistic but it could be about crouch height and have a long length. 

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