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Odd_fella

Flippin' FOBS on Flags!!!

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On 5/7/2016 at 7:08 PM, Tartantyco said:

Socrates, nobody understands you.

This is pretty accurate.

 

Socrates, again, your endeavor is admirable but the strategy is utterly flawed.

 

It's been explained to death. But for the sake of completeness: a FOB on a Flag provides an opportunity for the enemy to destroy your forward spawn and take your objective. You put all your eggs in one basket. And when the basket gets broken, you're left without a Flag and without a Spawn (within 400 meters). I'm willing to bet that a team comprised of the most experienced SQUAD players in the world wouldn't be able to sustain an assault that simultaneously targets two FOBs and a Flag, whilst also defending their backcap. However, a that same team would decimate a single FOB-on-Flag arrangement.

 

Your thesis has been proved incorrect in almost every case -- both in theory, and, more importantly, in practice. Exceptions obviously exist. The mechanic and the meta may change with the implementation of logistics and vehicles. But, with those changes, so too will the role of the FOB change from what it is used for now... an oft-clandestine team rally point... to what it was specifically designed to be: a forward operating base. At any rate,  the predominant outcome of an FOB on a Flag is the loss of both Flag and FOB. Please, stop trying to argue an alternative.

 

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Ok at least one point why it makes sense to place a FoB in the Compound from time to time.

If there would be a Rule, and nobody place the fob inside the Compound , or lets say not inside a 100 Meter Radius. Then the m² where the fob can be will be halfed.

Means the enemy will adapt and search in a Half Circle on a 250 meter Radius.

 

Finally this will make the FOBS die sooner as now.

Edited by Royal Deluxe

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1 hour ago, Royal Deluxe said:

Ok at least one point why it makes sense to place a Fow in the Compound from time to time.

Placing FOBs in compounds is not the same as placing a FOB on an objective. That's an entirely different discussion.

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I was just in a game with a FOB on Storage Site that won. I must say it probably took a while to build, but it was a good design and it worked for us. It stayed strong for at least 200 tickets, up to match end, which we won, never ever losing Storage Site. (Wasn't me who built it, by the way.)

 

Although a more decent opposing team probably wouldn't have let them build it up that far (unless they were hit hard or delayed by advancing squads pushing out).

 

Here's what it looked like:

 

 

@BLITZA, it's a nice design, isnt it? Great tactical consideration as well? Or at the very least, in this situation, viable :)

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Don't people think that if the Dev's thought it was such a game breaker they would put area's around flags where you can't place them.

 

Bad play From a team loses a map. Bad communication. Loose organisation, lone wolfing, ticket wasting.  These types of things lose a match, 10 tickets don't lose a match.   People now fear using fobs for judgmental people. Use the Fobs to focus play and advance your team. 

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@Karm It was good seeing the sandbags high enough to stop incoming RPGs. Personally I'd feel very vulnerable in there. Like fish in a barrel. I am amazed you guys held out to be honest. A smoke based attack, few frags in and a camp outside should have taken that down relativity easily. I can only speculate but I think the teams may of been a bit unbalanced.

 

Fobs on cp can work in the right circumstances. I'll leave it at that as it's not a tactic I like to see employed but I'll do my best to make it work if that's what the SL wants.

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In the games current stage of development I've seen people using dynamic fobs. What I mean by that is fob up on a cp, build defences and hold out for other squads to neutralise or assaulting the next cp, then take down the fob and relocate to the next cp. It can put the other team on the back foot when you're back capping them. Had that work very well on a recent Chora game. The defences and fob spawn can give you the time to hold out while the team takes further cp. We advanced all the way to the Russians first cp using those tactics. It wasn't planned like that but just sort of happened after my SL set up camp at Hemp Farm. Not bad coordination for a pub game.

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5 hours ago, Karm said:

I was just in a game with a FOB on Storage Site that won. I must say it probably took a while to build, but it was a good design and it worked for us. It stayed strong for at least 200 tickets, up to match end, which we won, never ever losing Storage Site. (Wasn't me who built it, by the way.)

 

Although a more decent opposing team probably wouldn't have let them build it up that far (unless they were hit hard or delayed by advancing squads pushing out).

 

Here's what it looked like:

 

 

@BLITZA, it's a nice design, isnt it? Great tactical consideration as well? Or at the very least, in this situation, viable :)

This shit is exactly the reason why I hate the damn "majority rulz" capping system we have. Its so damn gamey, not to mention immersion breaking(not that I give two shits about immersion but some do). That FOB isn't defending anything. You guys have trapped yourself. But yet, the mechanics of the game currently reward you for it which is just asinine!

 

Please remove cap zones and replace them with a flag pole or some other physical element that must be interacted with by a player in order to capture an objective. Give us objectives to defend instead of "who can sneak more people into a cap zone". If I'm going to ninja an objective allow me the satisfaction to know that I outsmarted him, not that I simply brought more people.

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Funny how people who against flag fobs talk about 20 tickets loss if flag with fob would be capped, but don't realize that defending non-fortified flag and deaths during running from fob to flag (attackers always quickly discover where defenders are coming from) cause equal if not bigger ticket loss.

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2 hours ago, PolishKruk said:

This shit is exactly the reason why I hate the damn "majority rulz" capping system we have. Its so damn gamey, not to mention immersion breaking(not that I give two shits about immersion but some do). That FOB isn't defending anything. You guys have trapped yourself. But yet, the mechanics of the game currently reward you for it which is just asinine!

Well, it's on the objective and inside the capzone. As the center objective, you can win from slight ticket bleed just by holding it, provided you don't die WAY more than the enemy.

 

So it is defending something, namely the bodies in the center cap zone. We weren't trapped; all sides were open and exitable, but with all the ladders overlooking those entrances, they were a really hard place to simply breach.

 

I'm generally not a fan of FOBs on flags at all. But this one worked out surprisingly well. Worth a little mention. :-)

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I believe that any FOB placement works, as long as you make it work. Yes, I am also including the possibility of FOB placements on the middle of the road/bridge.

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5 minutes ago, Socrates said:

I believe that any FOB placement works, as long as you make it work. Yes, I am also including the possibility of FOB placements on the middle of the road/bridge.

 

You're forgetting about the quality of the opposing team. That's something you have no control over. Your desire to 'make it work' will count for very little if they know what they're doing and work effectively.

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38 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

 

You're forgetting about the quality of the opposing team. That's something you have no control over. Your desire to 'make it work' will count for very little if they know what they're doing and work effectively.

Exactly. Even if the other team knows what they're doing, you still make it work.

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9 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Exactly. Even if the other team knows what they're doing, you still make it work.

 

So after the opposing team have steam rolled your ill place fob for the second time you're still going to 'make it work'? I admire your spirit......but little else.

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19 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

 

 

So after the opposing team have steam rolled your ill place fob for the second time you're still going to 'make it work'? I admire your spirit......but little else.

Obviously not. Adjust to the situation.

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I am very annoyed by all the people who claim that a FOB is worth 20 tickets. Pay attention next time a fob goes down on your team...I have watched it multiple times on various maps and as far as I can see it is 10 tickets. Maybe it changes on some maps?  I know however, on Chora and Operation First Light it is 10 tickets.....it is highly unlikely other maps are different. 

 

Flags are worth 20 tickets on most maps it appears........I do believe this changes on each map/layout.  I know some maps give your team points when you cap a flag and other maps/layouts do not.

 

IMO a fob anywhere will work as long as the team is near it. Fobs that aren't near the team almost always get taken down prematurely in the current meta. I don't really like the current metastrategy the game is driving but I know it will change. For now it is what it is....like it or not.....zerg rushes for middle flag with fobs at or near the flags at the beginning usually set the stage for a win or not. flank squads/fobs usually take too long to be effective with the current meta. That doesn't necessarily mean fobs should be on flags but they usually end up very close. 

 

Maps like Chora in it's current state show this meta almost every game.

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8 hours ago, ZiGreen said:

Funny how people who against flag fobs talk about 20 tickets loss if flag with fob would be capped, but don't realize that defending non-fortified flag and deaths during running from fob to flag (attackers always quickly discover where defenders are coming from) cause equal if not bigger ticket loss.

 

The reason I am against FOBs on flags is because of experience, logic and the current game mechanics - not because of some inherent hatred of building. I've said before that I WISH the building system was smarter and not tied to the actual spawn point. It would make the game so much more diverse and actually give a reason to fortify locations. 

 

I don't get anything from constantly bashing on FOBs on flags, it's just the current state of the game meta. If they change the way FOBs work, then I'll change my opinion. 

 

That said, I have two big issues with your point.

 

1. Only noob squads spawn off a FOB as their primary spawn. If SLs are actually good/clever, they'll be getting their guys to spawn off an RP off point - to constantly keep the enemy turning on an axis and continually make them fight against a force that approaches from a consistently different direction. The idea of losing guys spawning on the off-cap FOB already means that the team is playing poorly.

 

2. Basic logic says that by placing your FOB off point by a considerable distance (so long as it's not placed between the enemy and the point), you're essentially forcing the enemy team to divide their forces to attack two equally important objectives. Instead of 18 guys attacking the objective/fob, you force the enemy force to decide who goes for the FOB (and have to search for it too) and who goes for the cap. If they don't deal with the FOB, then the cap will be so much harder to take. If they don't deal with the cap, then they're failing in their assault. If you're a good SL, then you'll place your RP off-center between the FOB, the cap and the enemy force. All of a sudden the enemy must deal with potentially 3 objectives (4 or 5 if other friendly squads have RPs down) instead of the single FOB/flag/RP that gets placed in the deathtrap flag fobs. Years of playing PR and now Squad have taught that a team that is pinned down, bogged down and separated is incredibly easy to destroy. That's the entire key to winning Squad.

 

Similarly, the last massive downsides to FOB on flag are:

 

1. It's not sustainable. If you succeed, then you have to remove the FOB and replace it - or don't remove it and lose the 20 tickets when the first enemy comes along after you've moved away. The time cost of that alone is annoying. Given that most people who build on flags are noobs, they never remove the fob and we always lose the tickets.

 

2. Most of the time, by building on a flag noob SL's and players somehow equate the work building to "winning". Even under fire, you have the moron SL and players trying to dig stuff. That's 4 of 9 guns (sometimes higher) doing absolutely nothing. It's a totally false equation. 

 

3. In the times I've had to protect a superfob (usually because I can't be fucked to dismantle it and have an argument) the easiest way to win is to have two guys inside (GL, AR or AT) with an ammo crate firing shit incessantly while the 7 other Squaddies spawn at an RP and circle the FOB at 200m killing all the tunnel-visioned attackers. While this works amazingly well as a strategy, not only do the fob squads not employ it, it's still not worth it due to the problems stated above.

 

Edited by +++++

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2 minutes ago, +++++ said:

The reason I am against FOBs on flags is because of experience, logic and the current game mechanics - not because of some inherent hatred of building. I've said before that I WISH the building system was smarter and not tied to the actual spawn point. It would make the game so much more diverse and actually give a reason to fortify locations. 

 

I haven't played project reality in a while, is it like that in PR? You'd have the FOB spawnable, then have separate logistics crates that don't need to be anywhere near the fob so you can build emplacements at key locations without slapping your spawn point down on the same spot. Is that how it works or does PR require crates to be close to FOBs to build things?

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24 minutes ago, Mumble said:

 

I haven't played project reality in a while, is it like that in PR? You'd have the FOB spawnable, then have separate logistics crates that don't need to be anywhere near the fob so you can build emplacements at key locations without slapping your spawn point down on the same spot. Is that how it works or does PR require crates to be close to FOBs to build things?

 

You're right. You have to build defenses around the FOB itself. However, I've always felt that detaching the two systems would give much more freedom to the gameplay. Make the supplies the determining factor for building, and treat the FOB just as you would the defenses (as opposed to making defenses dependent on the FOB). I will say that FOBing on the flag in PR was more effective though, due to the caps being much, much larger on many flags, and also because the weaponry was far more potent (MG's, TOW's, AA). Still, the most effective tactic is/was to build off cap.

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On May 9, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Cheesy_LeScrub said:

Your thesis has been proved incorrect in almost every case -- both in theory, and, more importantly, in practice. Exceptions obviously exist.

Very solid proof. Must be the author of many mathematical papers

Edited by Sierra1Golf

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23 minutes ago, Sierra1Golf said:

Very solid proof. Must be the author of many mathematical papers

I'm an historian. Close enough -- with a sprinkle of supposition, and a touch of "well, this also happened" -- is usually good enough as "proof" ;)

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