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TygaTheKing

Do You Think Suppressive Fire Is Effective In Squad?

Do You Think Suppressive Fire Is Effective In Squad?  

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  1. 1. Do You Think Suppressive Fire Is Effective In Squad?

    • Yes
      103
    • No
      100


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What is Suppressive fire?  Suppressive fire (commonly called covering fire) is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission. Suppression is usually only effective for the duration of the fire".

Me and my Squad was wound heavy enemy fire I told my SL to get some suppressive fire down to the West which where we was getting fire from. He said no because he did not won't to give our spot up he said they would know our grid I told they know anyway..But he would not do it....So then the enemy close in on up and was getting closer and closer and we all died he said dont fire until we see the enemy

So next I did the same thing with a new SL this time it was up north so we had lmg and rifles all firing to the N for about 5-6 mins it was a heavy firefight no one  got down but some got wounded...But with that suppressive fire they could not push in on us like the story I told ^^^.....We moved up while the lmg was giving us coving fire

 

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it works, but fire support weapons like the m249, rpk really need bipod deployment and [even more] decreased recoil when prone because yea, like you said, the cost of suppressive fire is that it can give away your position

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I think the suppression mechanics need a little tweaking to be more effective when implementing it. Which I am sure will relate to the new anim system. Looking forward to the next 6 months

 

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56 minutes ago, TygaTheKing said:

What is Suppressive fire?  Suppressive fire (commonly called covering fire) is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission. Suppression is usually only effective for the duration of the fire".

Me and my Squad was wound heavy enemy fire I told my SL to get some suppressive fire down to the West which where we was getting fire from. He said no because he did not won't to give our spot up he said they would know our grid I told they know anyway..But he would not do it....So then the enemy close in on up and was getting closer and closer and we all died he said dont fire until we see the enemy

So next I did the same thing with a new SL this time it was up north so we had lmg and rifles all firing to the N for about 5-6 mins it was a heavy firefight no one  got down but some got wounded...But with that suppressive fire they could not push in on us like the story I told ^^^.....We moved up while the lmg was giving us coving fire

  •  

 

 check out my friends video on suppression, yes suppression works. It keeps enemies head down.

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Can we add "it depends" ? Because tats the correct answer in my book - it depends on how / when it is used. 

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I mostly use rifles with iron sights or red dot sights.

So the only time I feel like I'm having a suppressive fire effect is when I take a shot at an running unknowing enemy from 50+ meters. My first shot hits, or gets close, and he starts to twitch and serpentine his way into cover while I continue to shoot to get that 2nd lucky kill shot. But this isn't suppresive fire, is it.

All other situations it's a shoot out to the death, until someone is hit and moves into cover to patch up or someone moves into cover to toss a grenade.

So IMO the only thing that is having a suppressing effect at the current state of the game is scoring that one hit that makes them crawl into cover and patch up.

And if I get shot at and doesn't pop up in the same location, then I'm off course being l33t and using my internet soldering skill flanking ;)

I don't think suppressive fire work.

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I was under the impression that it's a WIP right now and will be replaced eventually. Receiving accurate fire is intense enough to make me take cover in the current system, but only if I can't see the enemy. If I can see him it isn't difficult to return accurate fire. I like to shoot a lot, and when I'm squad leader I always encourage my squad to shoot in the direction we take fire from even if they can't see individual enemies. Hopefully fire superiority will become a more effective tactic as development progresses. My SAW and I are also really excited for bipods. 

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oh god no, please dont say you all are asking for blindness when a bullet goes over your head again

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Suppression effects need to be more prominent. People don't fear being shot in Squad majority of the time, unless miles out from a FOB/RP or have none of those at all. Generally when I have a large volume of fire heading my way, I wont stick to cover, I'll move in a path that covers me from most incoming and the rounds that do land close, really don't give me an effect of not wanting to move or not return fire, you stop behind cover, you can guarantee an rpg or 203 when you become stationary for too long. Then there are those moments when you're behind a rock or other form of cover and you have accurate incoming landing a few feet around and the subtle suppression visual effects kick in, it can make you feel like not wanting to move.

Over all, I think suppressive fire can be useful sometimes, but overall the suppression effects need to be beefed up a little bit.

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well, maybe when your trying to suppress someone dont shoot around them but at them. blinding people is not a good design nor fun experience. for that then lets put flash bangs in the game to blind people.  

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Depends on how the enemy players react honestly. Personally I do not care about recieving incoming fire because movement makes it easy to dodge. I have seen people crap their pants when I start spraying and others just go "lol" and run away.

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I voted yes, but it needs improvement. Suppression works when you are scared of dying. I've only had success suppressing with the RPK on single fire. 

 

Yes suppression works when I suppress a squad, but only after establishing myself as a threat by killing 1 or 2.  The rest stay down and I can plink at the nearby cover or places they might peak to keep their heads down so squadmates can flank. 

 

The other effect of firing at your target wildly is you get them to move, making it easier for squad mates to spot them (tracers help with this). This usually ends up happening instead of forcing targets to stay down in a pinned state. 

 

I feel like 9/10 times suppression is not done correctly and its just a single guy giving away his position.  

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It could use some work. When i suppress a target i fell like its more a question of drawing fire or attention to your potistion. You get the attention of an enemy, but useually they vil return fire (where the draw fire comes in, this can be extremly helpfull though). Or else thier are getting thier ass into cover and running away straight after they went out of site. Im not sure what could be done to make it more realistic, as ive never been under suppression, but you could might get a little speed slowdown in movement and make your screen go a little dark around the edges, so you get a slight disadvantage which encourage you to lay still for a moment.

 

Edited by White Cracker

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I voted No--for me, suppression is not currently effective enough.

In a video-game, suppression must make use of contrived features to physically inhibit a player's ability to return effective fire. It is not enough for brilliant sound-design and deadly, accurate weapons. Deadly weapons only go so far. Yes, it is "dangerous" to get shot in game. But not dangerous enough (by penalty of spawn delay or other reasons "not to die") to prohibit players from literally standing up to a machinegun and returning accurate fire to the source. There must be some contrived disadvantage--be it flinching, restricted vision, or a combination of all, that inhibits the player being shot at and gives the player shooting a distinct advantage.

 

7 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

 blinding people is not a good design nor fun experience. for that then lets put flash bangs in the game to blind people.  


And, Raul, before you counter by saying "you're rewarding people for missing". No. You are not. You are rewarding people for putting fire on enemy positions. Moreover, suppression enables firefights to develop into something interesting whereby volume of accurate fire, and sustaining that volume of fire, actually means something. In game at the present juncture, if an LMG lights me up from a 100+ meters, I will crouch once, step left or right, bring up my ACOG/PSO and literally stand there, stationary, for as long as it takes to line up a headshot and kill the gunner. I shouldn't be permitted to do that. The risk/reward encourages that behaviour because there is nothing stopping me from doing it, and dying isn't severe enough a penalty. If, however, suppression forced me to take cover because I cannot shoot back, the equation would change.

For me, the severity of suppression should scale according to the weapon employed--
Lowest - Handguns
Medium - Rifles
High - Light Support Weapons
Highest - Heavy Support Weapons / Explosives

I'd love if the Devs could weigh in again on this discussion. It went around and around the forums at this time last year, but we didn't really hear anything more since then. How do the Devs envisage suppression and how do they intend to implement it? That would be great to hear. I guess the only reference point we have are Project Reality.

 

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1 minute ago, James2464 said:

I think the dark overlay PR has should be tested publicly to gauge

You can argue that PR's suppression was overdone, but you cannot argue that it was not effective. I guess that's the point, hey :P

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It's effective to scare newcomers, but it's not effective enough to deteriorate a proficient enemy player's aim and fire. A good player knows when he's being accurately fired at and when he's being "suppressed" by full auto fire. The latter just tells him his best chances of survival are to shoot back, which he can do fairly easily.

Blur is not quite enough to be effective, and for the M249, the affected area isn't big enough to really be worthwhile (but that's just my experience, and I suck at AR, I've even made a topic about it).

 

Karmakut's video is awesome, very well made and informative, but what it doesn't show is what it looks like from a first person's perspective to be suppressed, nor how much your vision deteriorates (not a lot) and how capable you still are of shooting back accurate shots (very capable).

 

Blinding a player is an option with downsides, increasing sway is an option with downsides. But I believe most experienced players will agree that suppression is hardly useful at all in its current iteration.

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9 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

please dont say you all are asking for blindness when a bullet goes over your head again

 

Nah. Instead I would like to try a suppression effect where your aim jumps a few centimetres in a random direction. Like if someone poked your mouse IRL.

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35 minutes ago, 3e58i said:

 

Nah. Instead I would like to try a suppression effect where your aim jumps a few centimetres in a random direction. Like if someone poked your mouse IRL.

It's interesting to see where everyone stands on this. I would like more suppression, and I mentioned "flinching" in my initial post, but I not really keen on the game changing what you can do with your weapon, but how it affects your ability to employ the weapon due to other factors like blur or whatever.

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4 minutes ago, =AMG=Cheesy_LeScrub said:

It's interesting to see where everyone stands on this. I would like more suppression, and I mentioned "flinching" in my initial post, but I not really keen on the game changing what you can do with your weapon, but how it affects your ability to employ the weapon due to other factors like blur or whatever.

As I mentioned, I think blur and increased sway are the main options for showing the effects of fire suppression in a way that actually makes it really hard for people to shoot/hit stuff. Of these options, I think I strongly prefer blur (which is scary, even though not entirely realistic) over artificial weapon sway (which would mostly just be really annoying, and not too scary).

 

Maybe the blur is too strong in PR, too weak in Squad... I'd be happy if they were to meet in the middle (with an extra increase for the AR in both blur effect and effect radius). That's just my opinion, though. :)

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It depends how you think about suppression. It has many aspects. And how people use it. Many players imagine that suppression => enemy cant return fire or do anything.  But what about this? 

- slow down 

- disorient 

- attract 

- fix 

So lets take it point by point. 

1) Slow down

Enemy know your position. Your squad need some time to prepare flank or regroup. 2 - 3 guys start fire to enemy position and slow down their assaulting. Lucky somebody can be wounded. Firefight is at long rage. And effect is = Get a time. Suppression itself doesn't have o big effect. But enemy have to think about cover, about maneuvering about exposing or even reviving. 

2) disorient 

usualy enemy doesnt know from where exactly all bullets comming from. Multiple direction. Middle - far firefight. You create time window for friendly flanking. 

3) attract 

Very simple. You want that enemy will be hit by "tunnel vision" and focus just at you. Middle - far 

4)fix 

you know that enemy is behind some cover (corner or in room) yo ujust fire at dangerous zone. So enemy cant look out properly. So he has to find out different way out. And you expect that he will do that and its a trap. Effective at short - middle 

 

Point is that many people didn't realize that its effective at middle-far range. They come with LMG to very close. Me personally I use LMG for suppressive from very far distance. So iam in cover. They are in panic and my squad come closer and destroy them with surprise attack. This is effective suppress for me. 

 

Another point. 

There are two kind of suppression itself. 

A) Point - you fire to exact enemy position. HMG, Second Floor or Hesco or stuff like that 

B) Area - squad suppress for example 70 - 100 m of ridge area at front. 

But this need team work. 5 guys sit and fire to area and rest flank. Its not "action" for many players in game. So its rare to see that. 

Good suppresion mean whole teamwork. Not just one guy. In that case its really ineffective. 

Simple math 

1 mag = 30 bullets

9 guys  = 270 bullets 

If whole squad will suppress area its 270 bullets. If you will fire 15 bullets / minute => 185 bullets / minute at area. So yo ucan pretty good suppress 2 minutes without reloading because 185 bullets its big number. Another assault squad could be much smaller and will success because of panic and surprise of enemy. 

And this work at middle - far distance. Players just dont know it and they are not disciplined enough to do that. 

 

Tak the old chora AAS 1 

From Market you could very simple suppres  river side area or lilac area. If whole squad fire from Market to River side enemys are attract, create tunel vision, cannot move at roofs. Very hard return fire. And friendly assault squad have much less work to assault. But what it needs ? Squad leaders communication and team work. 

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