Shovely Joe

SVD too weak

60 posts in this topic

I searched, and even though im sure this must have been mentioned at some point, I couldn't find a thread.

Since the russians gained new scope(s?) for the AK - which I think is fine, and for the SVD - which is really bad.

I get that the devs don't want the SVD or other snipers in the future to be too big of a factor. but....

the SVD takes 2 shots to kill unless you make a headshot, which is pretty hard with the low magnificationscope attached to it. it only has 4 magazines making a strategy of lying far away and giving overwatch is next to useless. Snipers don't have a bino, so actually they don't really have the ability to spot out enemys for their squad. on top of all this there is a team-max sniper counter, not just 1 per squad, every squad cant even have one. - which ofcourse doesn't really matter since it's so bad anyway... I just dont get it.

The AK with scope is better than the sniper in ALL aspects, i have yet to see the ak be more inaccurate than the SVD, same scope, automatic fire, more ammo, still 2 shots to kill... what is the SVD even doing in the game? 

The sniperkit needs to be improved in some way tbh... at the very least give him a pair of binoculars. A ghilly suit would be nice as well. make a top torso shot a one kill hit or give him better magnification (this might be unrealistic or what ever - its a game).

if it's not getting improved might as well just take the sniper out of the game... I think.

What do you guys think of the SVD or future snipers, and their roles?

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There currently is no sniper class in the game, in it's current state the SVD is still in effect a Designated Marksman role. For balance sake they are only meant to be effective in the medium range skirmish to take immediate threats to your squad, not to go off and provide recon and long distance fire support. That is of course for the time being so it is WiP and therefore will probably have the SVD evolve or even better long rifle's make there way into a sniper spot when the game is more fleshed out. Currently they are the only optic that the Insurgent force has access to, so removing them entirely will have the other factions with a substantial range advantage, the team wide limits are to impose the whole asymmetrical dynamic.

Edited by Nasskicker

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12 minutes ago, Shovely Joe said:

I searched, and even though im sure this must have been mentioned at some point, I couldn't find a thread.

Since the russians gained new scope(s?) for the AK - which I think is fine, and for the SVD - which is really bad.

I get that the devs don't want the SVD or other snipers in the future to be too big of a factor. but....

the SVD takes 2 shots to kill unless you make a headshot, which is pretty hard with the low magnificationscope attached to it. it only has 4 magazines making a strategy of lying far away and giving overwatch is next to useless. Snipers don't have a bino, so actually they don't really have the ability to spot out enemys for their squad. on top of all this there is a team-max sniper counter, not just 1 per squad, every squad cant even have one. - which ofcourse doesn't really matter since it's so bad anyway... I just dont get it.

The AK with scope is better than the sniper in ALL aspects, i have yet to see the ak be more inaccurate than the SVD, same scope, automatic fire, more ammo, still 2 shots to kill... what is the SVD even doing in the game? 

The sniperkit needs to be improved in some way tbh... at the very least give him a pair of binoculars. A ghilly suit would be nice as well. make a top torso shot a one kill hit or give him better magnification (this might be unrealistic or what ever - its a game).

if it's not getting improved might as well just take the sniper out of the game... I think.

What do you guys think of the SVD or future snipers, and their roles?

I agree with you 100%. The svd is useless, it really needs to be a one shot kill weapon all above the legs.

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1 minute ago, Nasskicker said:

There currently is no sniper class in the game, in it's current state the SVD is still in effect a Designated Marksman role. For balance sake they are only meant to be effective in the medium range skirmish to take immediate threats to your squad, not to go off and provide recon and long distance fire support. That is of course for the time being so it is WiP and therefore will probably have the SVD evolve or even better long rifle's make there way into a sniper spot when the game is more fleshed out.

^This...

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6 minutes ago, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

^This...

but even in that enviroment it sucks derb... no clan uses it... because it is inferioir to all other weapons... the new ACOG is even better than this thing...

give it 1 mag more and maybe it becomes a little bit of a use again

Edited by S0NNy

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Just now, S0NNy said:

but even in that enviroment it sucks derb... no clan uses it... because it is inferioir to all other weapons... the new ACOG is even better than this thing...

give it 1 mag more and a 5-10% reduced recoil and maybe it becomes a little bit of a use again

 

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The SVD currently out damages all rifles at a distance. M4s,AKMs etc have a way higher damage dropoff at distance compared to the SVD. Adding an extra mag I could live with. Marksman roles will be more effective when the suppression system is a bit more beefy.

 

The current class the SVD is for, is the Marksman class. You're just like a rifleman, but have better mid range capabilities compared to regular rifleman. Your job is to provide overwatch for your squad or send accurate fire on enemy positions that normal rifleman cant do as well, while working with your squad, not sitting on random hills taking pot shots at people. People get confused to the differences of marksman & snipers a lot.

 

22 minutes ago, cyreda said:

I agree with you 100%. The svd is useless, it really needs to be a one shot kill weapon all above the legs.

2 shot kill is fine. Aim for the head if you want 1 shot kills. Adding 1 shot kills anywhere waist upwards, to a semi automatic rifle, would be too OP and break gun balance.

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13 minutes ago, Dubs said:

The current class the SVD is for, is the Marksman class. You're just like a rifleman, but have better mid range capabilities compared to regular rifleman. Your job is to provide overwatch for your squad or send accurate fire on enemy positions that normal rifleman cant do as well, while working with your squad, not sitting on random hills taking pot shots at people. People get confused to the differences of marksman & snipers a lot.

^this.

It makes me cringe so hard everytime someone says "sniper" ingame, can't help it. There are no snipers, people. At least not for a long while, and I'm very grateful that the devs are taking steps to discourage "sniping" and making it harder. The role of a designated marksman has little to do with that of a sniper, yet the the vast majority of players still don't see the difference.

SVD isn't weak, you just don't know how to use it. It's got quite terrifying damage, usually one torso hit is enough to put someone out of the fight because he has to bandage immediately or risk bleeding out.

Then again, I love munching on the people sitting on top of some hill, shooting every two seconds with this extremely loud gun with distinctive sound, advertising that "the dinner is served here". SVD is easy to recognize and you are very vulnerable when using it. That's why you should be moving with your squad as a good DM.

Edited by MultiSquid

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11 hours ago, S0NNy said:

but even in that enviroment it sucks derb... no clan uses it... because it is inferioir to all other weapons... the new ACOG is even better than this thing...

give it 1 mag more and maybe it becomes a little bit of a use again

After this last update i find myself using the SVD more the ACOG because of how it handles now bothers the fuck out of me... and that no clans use it thing is mainly because most clans in Squad league seem to be running a 6-6-6  squads and to the best of my knowledge it does not give you the option to use the SVD other wise i would be using it!

 

Now i will say that it used to be a game changer if put into the right hands and has been nerfed for balance which is fine and better in the long run.

Edited by VaaSHARK
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10 hours ago, Dubs said:

The SVD currently out damages all rifles at a distance. M4s,AKMs etc have a way higher damage dropoff at distance compared to the SVD. Adding an extra mag I could live with. Marksman roles will be more effective when the suppression system is a bit more beefy.

 

The current class the SVD is for, is the Marksman class. You're just like a rifleman, but have better mid range capabilities compared to regular rifleman. Your job is to provide overwatch for your squad or send accurate fire on enemy positions that normal rifleman cant do as well, while working with your squad, not sitting on random hills taking pot shots at people. People get confused to the differences of marksman & snipers a lot.

 

2 shot kill is fine. Aim for the head if you want 1 shot kills. Adding 1 shot kills anywhere waist upwards, to a semi automatic rifle, would be too OP and break gun balance.

The damage dropoff is irrelevant if a rifleman can throw 3 times the rounds a marksman can at each target. The SVD does not have enough ammo to be used for suppression and it isn't accurate or stable enough for precision. It just isn't a viable option right now. The SVD is terrible when compared to the other factions' ranged weapons. That's a fact.

10 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

^this.

It makes me cringe so hard everytime someone says "sniper" ingame, can't help it. There are no snipers, people. At least not for a long while, and I'm very grateful that the devs are taking steps to discourage "sniping" and making it harder. The role of a designated marksman has little to do with that of a sniper, yet the the vast majority of players still don't see the difference.

SVD isn't weak, you just don't know how to use it. It's got quite terrifying damage, usually one torso hit is enough to put someone out of the fight because he has to bandage immediately or risk bleeding out.

Then again, I love munching on the people sitting on top of some hill, shooting every two seconds with this extremely loud gun with distinctive sound, advertising that "the dinner is served here". SVD is easy to recognize and you are very vulnerable when using it. That's why you should be moving with your squad as a good DM.

The point is not that the SVD isn't a good sniper weapon. It's a terrible DMR, especially when compared to the ranged weapons that the other factions have. We're all glad you understand what a marksman is but that has nothing to do with the weapon balance. How is having to bandage after getting hit with an SVD any different than literally any other weapon in the game? If anything it's a disadvantage because of the low ammo count the SVD has. Speaking of the low ammo count, the weapon has literally no advantages to offset the fact that you carry less than a third of the rounds compared to any other class. Normal AKs are more effective at range right now than the SVD. The accuracy sucks, the magazine capacity (both the number of mags you carry and the amount in each mag) suck, the recoil sucks, even the sight picture sucks. And this is not what is holding it back from being a good sniper weapon. This is what is holding it back from being on par with the other optic-equipped weapons in the game. You're post comes across as if you think the OP is an idiot for pointing out an obvious balance issue. OP is right, get over it.  

 

Can you people stop acting like this game is perfect? We're in alpha right now. Every time someone posts a legit complaint or balance issue they get bombarded with comments that sum up to "you don't know what you're talking about lol". Please accept that the game is in a rough, early state and that a lot needs to be changed. Pointing out that the SVD sucks at it's intended role right now (it does) does not mean the OP wants hill campers everywhere. I cannot stand the elitist mindset that so many people in this community have.   

   

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I haven't been able to grab the kit because I'm not a weeny - but I've played with it in the range and it seems fine - I've had quite a few of them on my squad that managed to be alot of help - the ones that stick with the squad - and medics.

that said alpha bleh changes incomming TBA valvetime

 

oh and yea i read the whole thread, jeeez.

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1 hour ago, BloodLust said:

-snip   

First of all, there is no weapon accuracy ingame. All primary weapons shoot exactly where they're aimed (except for a slight bug when aiming upwards or downwards at a steep angle, fix pls). The only ballistic factors right now are a slight bullet drop at long ranges (quite irrelevant, since people who actually want to hit don't shoot at ranges where the bullet drop is more substantial, or you have to be prepared to miss) and bullet speed.

The immediate need of a bandage can be used to great effect if you manage to hit several people in a row instead of focusing on one of them at a time. It's hard, yes, but then again it's not really supposed to be easy, is it? Of course I'm talking about a situation in which you are actually working with your squadmates who can provide additional firepower to either finish your adversaries off or make them retreat. If you're engaging enemies alone (as a large number of current "snipers" does) then you're just asking to get flanked and pistol whipped.

It's quite simple, you have to be consistently hitting people and making those shots count. I would agree with one thing here, the ammo capacity sucks, but that is a result of previous balancing effort since the SVD was deemed too powerful, maybe the marksmen will get their mags back again and I wouldn't object to that in the slightest.

The SVD is currently the only designated marksman kit in the game, and the game is constantly evolving. You may view it as weak right now, but we don't know what weapons the other DM kits will bring and how they'll be handled. I can see SVD becoming very powerful once weapon resting and proper bipods are introduced. It's kind of a same thing with light machine guns at the moment, they are simply limited by lacking certain game mechanics which are yet to be implemented.

As for my post coming across as mean, well once you spend more time on the forums reading  yet another thread about snipers, optics, antimaterial rifles, specialized recon teams etc., how much we need them and what an asset they are, maybe you'll understand why people can be a bit grumpy when it comes to this topic.

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1 hour ago, BloodLust said:

The damage dropoff is irrelevant if a rifleman can throw 3 times the rounds a marksman can at each target. The SVD does not have enough ammo to be used for suppression and it isn't accurate or stable enough for precision. It just isn't a viable option right now. The SVD is terrible when compared to the other factions' ranged weapons. That's a fact.

SVD damage at long range = If you hit the target once, they have to get out of the fight or take cover asap or they will be bleeding out rather quick. M4 or AKM damage at long range = If you hit the target once, they can return fire, advance and still survive long enough since the bleeding isn't that much of an issue unless you leave it for a minute or so.  A rifle man can send x3 the rounds down, but 90% of those will miss causing no real damage. An SVD can send a few rounds down range and all you need is one shot on one person to causes them to lose a man temporarily. 

If you re-read what I said, " Marksman roles will be more effective when the suppression system is a bit more beefy" When the system is worked on more you'll see the SVD being decent for suppression and pinning people down.

The SVD only needs a mag increase to be on par with other marksman weapons. Right now its extremely powerful, just lacks the ability to be in contact for long periods compered to the other DM Rifles.

Edited by Dubs

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I agree! Any caliber even NEAR the svd should put you down with ONE shot from waist up. I still think the 7.62 Ak47 should do the same. And ALL bullets should at least slow you down or knock you back temporarily. It's ridiculous that they still haven't added bullet hit reactions. 

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It isn't meant to be a "lay in a bush on a random hill" weapon. It is meant to be a support weapon and using it as a sniper is completely wrong.

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There are some very good points here that do not have to be repeated... but yes, the SVD is too weak. I understand the need to nerf and discourage lonewolf play, but lets be real... I have hit people with what should be fatal shots at pretty close range and they flip around and blast me. I understand that the marksman role is not meant to be snipe, but seriously, the SVD needs a more powerful optic to compensate for the weak damage levels. And you can try and argue that SVD is more damaging than the scoped m4, but experience tells me that ACOG+m4 wins every time vs SVD of comparable skill.

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3 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

First of all, there is no weapon accuracy ingame. All primary weapons shoot exactly where they're aimed (except for a slight bug when aiming upwards or downwards at a steep angle, fix pls). The only ballistic factors right now are a slight bullet drop at long ranges (quite irrelevant, since people who actually want to hit don't shoot at ranges where the bullet drop is more substantial, or you have to be prepared to miss) and bullet speed.

 

I was not aware of this, but it only proves my point. The SVD is no more accurate than other rifles, which takes out the only reason designated marksmen even exist in the first place. Scoped weapons from other factions can engage with the same accuracy, with 3 times the ammunition, and the same hits to kill. Even if the SVD does more damage per shot (I'm not convinced there is enough of a difference for it to matter in a firefight), the only advantage is the guy you shot getting a few seconds less to heal himself. Which is a non-issue because you only need to hit him twice to kill him and you have three times the rounds to finish the job with any other weapon. How are you not able to admit that all of the other weapons that have optics in this game are superior in the role of designated marksman to the SVD? It's okay if some weapons need balance tweaks. After I first used the SVD I assumed the devs intentionally underpowered the weapon to keep it from being too OP in the current infantry only combat, or to force the insurgents into close range fights and ambush tactics by making the other factions much more effective at range. I would be extremely surprised to hear from a dev that the SVD is balanced as intended against the other ranged weapons in it's current state.   

 

Snipers and marksmen are different because of how they operate, not because of what weapon they use. Many modern snipers prefer the semi auto rifles that marksmen use, but they use the weapon differently. The point I am trying to make is that a good DMR, by definition, will have the capacity to be used as a sniper rifle if the player chooses to use it as one. So in effect, nerfing the DMRs to make them less appealing to wannabe snipers also makes the weapon less effective in the hands of a marksman who uses the weapon properly. There are already players using the scoped weapons as sniper rifles, and I blame that on the squad leaders. If the marksman in your squad goes off on some hill to be a bush wookie, then you should kick him. Problem solved.           

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for my part... give the SVD 1 mag more + reduce the recoil after the shot ~10% .. then it is vaible again... for the ACOG (i know there is a own OT by MrChaggy) .. new ACOG should be also ne buffed by reduce the recoil about ~10%

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This discussion just makes me wish there was no scopes at all in the game.. people have such a wierd fetish with scopes, but in the end, they all die from my ironsights. 

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1 hour ago, Zeno965 said:

This discussion just makes me wish there was no scopes at all in the game.. people have such a wierd fetish with scopes, but in the end, they all die from my ironsights. 

Unfortunately,game doesn't have Cold War setting.Or earlier 2000.Probably thats why BF2 was my favorite in BF series.

Agree - CQC sights are much useful that,that any sort of optics most of the time.

 

SVD feels very weak.Something like M4+ACOG with a little bit increaced damage and a lot increaced recoil.But ACOG is also terrible :)

Edited by samogon

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In my mind this problem isn't necessarily with the fact that an SVD is ineffective as a marksman rifle, but that any extra damage beyond 50% is generally wasted with game mechanics as they are at the moment. It would not be a solution to make the SVD more powerful necessarily, as it would either be merely useless if it didn't enable 1 shot kills, but overpowered if it was able to. This problem will occur in the exact same fashion for any future higher caliber weapon that is incapable of 1 hit torso kills (FN FAL, G3, M240, PKM etc.).

 

The only solutions I could imagine are to:

Change the damage/distance drop-off such that there is a distance in which a torso shot will kill. For example, maybe less than 30m. This would have the unintended side-effect of making an svd a close range beast, so I dislike this idea.

Add new killzones that enable a 1 shot kill for a higher caliber weapon. An example could be through the heart, spine, or through the side between armour plates. Though too small of a hitzone might be too RNG-ish for some people's liking. Also this solution is a lot of work, and is probably not worth it to try and solve the 2-bullet-problem.

Embrace RNG, and change bullet damage to produce a range of damage rather than a fixed value . This would enable on average for a single svd hit to be more lethal at the same distance as a 5.56 hit, but prevent the situation in which it will always kill in a single hit.

Change the healing system such that a revived player has less total hit-points than a fresh soldier. If a revived player instead has 75% health rather than 100%, and the higher caliber weapon gives a damage range that starts at over 75%, then more hits from an SVD will be lethal when compared with a 5.56 hit.

All 'solutions' have problems, but I think it's important to come up with one before other higher-caliber weapons are introduced.

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18 minutes ago, yedrellow said:

All 'solutions' have problems, but I think it's important to come up with one before other higher-caliber weapons are introduced.

Those seem like reasonably solid solutions, although I think one that you missed out is impact effects. I am not 100% sure, but I think I have seen some hints about bullet impacts affecting the players (in what form I don't know), however if those do get implemented, the high caliber rifles could cause more serious impact effects (knocking someone down at range but not incapacitating them, for example) combined with a slightly beefed up "bleeding" system (like PR's screen obscuring) would work well I think

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27 minutes ago, yedrellow said:

In my mind this problem isn't necessarily with the fact that an SVD is ineffective as a marksman rifle, but that any extra damage beyond 50% is generally wasted with game mechanics as they are at the moment. It would not be a solution to make the SVD more powerful necessarily, as it would either be merely useless if it didn't enable 1 shot kills, but overpowered if it was able to. This problem will occur in the exact same fashion for any future higher caliber weapon that is incapable of 1 hit torso kills (FN FAL, G3, M240, PKM etc.).

 

The only solutions I could imagine are to:

Change the damage/distance drop-off such that there is a distance in which a torso shot will kill. For example, maybe less than 30m. This would have the unintended side-effect of making an svd a close range beast, so I dislike this idea.

Add new killzones that enable a 1 shot kill for a higher caliber weapon. An example could be through the heart, spine, or through the side between armour plates. Though too small of a hitzone might be too RNG-ish for some people's liking. Also this solution is a lot of work, and is probably not worth it to try and solve the 2-bullet-problem.

Embrace RNG, and change bullet damage to produce a range of damage rather than a fixed value . This would enable on average for a single svd hit to be more lethal at the same distance as a 5.56 hit, but prevent the situation in which it will always kill in a single hit.

Change the healing system such that a revived player has less total hit-points than a fresh soldier. If a revived player instead has 75% health rather than 100%, and the higher caliber weapon gives a damage range that starts at over 75%, then more hits from an SVD will be lethal when compared with a 5.56 hit.

All 'solutions' have problems, but I think it's important to come up with one before other higher-caliber weapons are introduced.

I don't think we should have one-shot firearms ingame, but I agree that extra damage is wasted. I think, solution could be found with additional wound mechanics, like stopping, slowing down, screen shaking etc for hitted player to prevent him from immediate actions after 7.62 round catch.

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I agree i wouldnt mind a very slight change.  Maybe 1 more magazine, added binoculars, and make upper chest area/neck 1 hit kill along with the head, obviously.  thats not really changing much.  even the way it is now ive done exceptionally well with the SVD on the forest maps.  30+ kills/single digit deaths while still sticking with the squad and hitting objectives.  it can be used well.  even at long distance it is a good suppression tool if the enemy was dumb enough to put a FOB out in the open.  you can really slow down an advancing squad.

 

Hell, ive taken out an entire squad before by myself with 2 mags using the SVD.  its not too hard to get those 2 hits.

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