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The Weapons Thread!

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The biggest factor of the G36 problem was that it was in Afghanistan.

 

It becomes so hot in Afghanistan, that the wind doesn't take any heat away from hot objects. So what I think happens it that the barrel remains extremely hot for longer periods of time it was developed for, which made the polymer distort after extensive use there. 

 

Besides that, it's one huge anti-H&K jerk-fest, G36 has been one of the most popular 5.56 weapons around and clan members who served in Norway and Germany haven't had any complaints about the G36 or the HK416.

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Still,only one conflict after WW2.It's qoute not enough to test new weapon.And is't actually qoute peaceful.

 

Bundeswehr has the third biggest ISAF contingent in A-stan.

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Bundeswehr is the third biggest ISAF contingent in A-stan.

 

Yes,and they're find the problem in A-stan.

But this war starts after 2000 year.

The fact is - M16/M4 and AKs are battle proven.G36 is good(Yeah,AR-18 construction quote reliabe),but not battle proven.

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Almost 20 years of active service in Germany, Latvia, Spain and units of other countries, and SUDDENLY Bundeswehr started to complain about reliability of service rifle. Yes, I agree, a couple of photos are not a good argument, but many units in german military and LE have no problem with HK rifles. Don't know, mate.

 

The thing is that those 20 years of active service weren't exactly in war zones. The rifle has, up until Afghanistan and Iraq, a weekend warrior's rifle, and throughout that time complaints have piled up until they were worth noting on a national level. This stuff doesn't come from nowhere, especially not considering how tightly aligned Germany is with H&K. I don't very well imagine that Von Der Leyen would be smearing H&K over the G36 while starting the adoption process of other H&K firearms on unfounded claims. 

 

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/german-soldiers-dont-trust-their-battle-rifle-e1070a9a67dc#.tcu0kt6kw

They find the overheating problem in A-stan.

Don't forget,probably only AK have stress test like,-50 to +50 C degrees and mud test.Also Germany qoute peaceful,so he lived almost 20 years with this problem,just because they're never expect it.

 

I was actually about to look up the Good Friday firefight story, but it appears as though it's mentioned there, good. As for the AK being able to withstand a mud test, I suggest you watch InRangeTV's video on it recently. The AK's loose tolerances unfortunately mean it's not very well sealed, and while that helps with reliability in sand, it's detrimental when it comes to mud.

 

Interesting to note. We all got our bias, no worries there mate.

 

 

I know what you mean by that. Most common complaint regarding the G36 however is the caliber not being strong enough(which has nothing to do with the rifle itself) and it not being manly enough. To quote a lot of people: "The G3 was a real rifle." In fact, I'm about the only person who views the scopes as the biggest problem of the weapon, the rest reduces the G36 to the caliber it fires and that's it. That 7.62mm comes with it's own set of shortcomings when compared to 5.56mm shouldn't surprise anyone, but a lot of people forget about that. I'll get a few more voices in 2 weeks when I'm on a little exercise with a few guys on active duty but I don't expect to see too many new faces and thus the aforementioned will hold largely true afterwards regardless.

 

 

Well, for the HKV(the red dot) you absolutely have to leave both eyes open when you aim otherwise it's a real pain. Once you're past that the FOV is just a bit lower than as if you were to aim with M4-style irons.

Obviously we never got the E-version in our hands. I was under the impression it would issue the same 3.5x optic as our G36 but I guess I'm wrong. At least that would explain why Spain never bothered to mount a red dot on top of it like we do, thanks for the heads-up.

I personally like the flexibility that this dual set-up offers. With irons you're hard pressed trying to hit past 300m and you have to switch the sighting on the rifle which can be annoying, red dots are good but cannot be ranged and when equipped with scopes you're having trouble in CQC. That neither standard issue scope nor red dot are too amazing I've often realized myself(I hate that bloody scope so much), but you can do good enough with it. Maybe I'm just biased towards having both when either/or by itself would be good enough for the mission.

I unfortunately have yet to grab one of our G36 IDZ(future soldier) ES(expanded system) variants, but yeah, I presume that fixed it.

 

 

I like the MP7(didn't fire it yet), just reloading is a bit annoying. Hopefully they address that at one point too.

You sure it's an M4? Seems to me as if that's more likely to be a HK416/417.

 

 

Edit:

@Samogon

 

Well, Kosovo wasn't always peaceful.

I would expect our army as well as everybody else to have conducted extensive tests regarding the firearm's behaviour, hot, cold, muddy, heated, and so on. Maybe in the wake of the German involvement in Kosovo adopting the weapon ended up being a little bit hasty, however afterwards the tests should've accounted for firing the rifle when heated.

 

The complaints I heard second hand from my friend were definitely about the scopes and the overheating/inaccuracy, but I never heard anything about the caliber. That being said, many people still buy into the "poodle shooter" idea of the 5.56 caliber, but that's all crap from people who have never seen what a 5.56 can do. They're usually the same people who say the 5.45 is the poison bullet and that the AK never jams. Everybody wants to carry a battle rifle until they're actually forced to do so.

 

As for the piggybacked red dot, it's a good idea, it's just poorly implemented. I think the best piggybacking method out there is by far the ACOG + RMR, but I don't see Germany adopting the ACOG anytime soon, much less the RMR.

 

When it comes to the MP7, it's an interesting idea but in reality it's the answer to a question no one ever had. They're just not necessary and the only reason Germany adopted it is because H&K threw a fit when FNH developed an all-around superior (albeit still unnecessary) cartridge and they talked Germany into adopting it to stop 5.7 from becoming a NATO standard cartridge.  Also, upon further inspection, that's actually a G36 with selectively painted pieces, so that's entirely my bad. I should've noticed the paddle mag release.

 

The main problem of G36 is not actually rifle construction. The biggest problem is that the rifle is made by HK :) Motto of HK customer service: "Because you suck and we hate you".

 

Problems with overheating could be easily fixed, heavier barrel, metal reinforced reciever and some kind of heat shield, but HK doesn't give a f*ck. Spain and Saudi Arabia are producing G36 under license, using their own materials, possibly it is the reason why HK G36 sucks.

 

Of course G36 has no future with so shitty plastic:

 

jrLBhkf.jpg

 

While I agree that it might be fine in design, the problem is we have to look at the reality rather than the possibilities. The G36 has problems with polymers in reality and therefore it has these issues. The application of the rifle in real life matters a whole lot more than how it could be adopted. For instance, the F-104 was a pretty amazing interceptor, but America sold it to Canada and Germany as a dive bomber, so while in theory the F-104 was an awesome plane, they ended up being lawn darts that were absolutely atrocious. 

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While I agree that it might be fine in design, the problem is we have to look at the reality rather than the possibilities. The G36 has problems with polymers in reality and therefore it has these issues. The application of the rifle in real life matters a whole lot more than how it could be adopted. For instance, the F-104 was a pretty amazing interceptor, but America sold it to Canada and Germany as a dive bomber, so while in theory the F-104 was an awesome plane, they ended up being lawn darts that were absolutely atrocious. 

 

Anyway, despite of issues with G36 were occured more than 5 years ago, bundeswehr continues to use it, as well as german special operations forces do. I don't know, what german government prefers to spend money on: reliable service rifles or condoms for immigrating rapists.

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I personally know 3 BW guys, one of who deployed to afghanistan. He carried a G3/SG1 but didn't have any problems with the G36. Just liked the larger caliber.

 

KSK prefers G36 over HK416 because they find it has better ergonomics and "shooting characteristics"

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The thing is that those 20 years of active service weren't exactly in war zones. The rifle has, up until Afghanistan and Iraq, a weekend warrior's rifle, and throughout that time complaints have piled up until they were worth noting on a national level. This stuff doesn't come from nowhere, especially not considering how tightly aligned Germany is with H&K. I don't very well imagine that Von Der Leyen would be smearing H&K over the G36 while starting the adoption process of other H&K firearms on unfounded claims. 

 

Well, but you would still test them on the extreme ends just in case, no? I mean, Spain, Saudi-Arabia and others would conduct tests of their own just to make sure they aren't being scammed(especially the Saudis who already own M4s and thus could live without another assault rifle), don't you think?

Public opinion on firearms is another factor. Unlike the US Army in the US the Bundeswehr isn't very much welcomed by the general public after being indoctrinated in pacifism and "we can talk this over" for the past 70 years, and as such the public is less knowledgeable of firearms compared to the US. Even if VdL is talking crap(and she did talk a lot of it in the past months) only a few people would know about it. So damaging HK's reputation can only benefit her, especially since so many people are ready to believe that companies betray and cheat at large. I dare say she wouldn't be the first person to lie and cover her abysmal knowledge of the subject(which is self-evident) via the strength of these claims. So I remain largely skeptical.

 

I was actually about to look up the Good Friday firefight story, but it appears as though it's mentioned there, good. As for the AK being able to withstand a mud test, I suggest you watch InRangeTV's video on it recently. The AK's loose tolerances unfortunately mean it's not very well sealed, and while that helps with reliability in sand, it's detrimental when it comes to mud.

 

Well, suppose the G36 wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn when it starts to get hot, how in the world did our boys make it out alive with only 3 fatalities - from an IED that exploded. If the G36 was as bad as the public makes it, the Talis would've closed in on them and killed more than zero by means of rifle fire. It's instances like these when things don't add up. Not to mention that the majorities of German fatalities in Afghanistan were due to IEDs and accidents. I only recall one instance when a Tali killed some of our men by rifle fire and that was because he was a traitor in the Afghan Army shooting them in the back in the "safe zone". I actually tried to dig up the German fatalities in Afghanistan a while ago but I couldn't find anything that was fitting for my purposes.

 

The complaints I heard second hand from my friend were definitely about the scopes and the overheating/inaccuracy, but I never heard anything about the caliber. That being said, many people still buy into the "poodle shooter" idea of the 5.56 caliber, but that's all crap from people who have never seen what a 5.56 can do. They're usually the same people who say the 5.45 is the poison bullet and that the AK never jams. Everybody wants to carry a battle rifle until they're actually forced to do so.

 

As for the piggybacked red dot, it's a good idea, it's just poorly implemented. I think the best piggybacking method out there is by far the ACOG + RMR, but I don't see Germany adopting the ACOG anytime soon, much less the RMR.

 

When it comes to the MP7, it's an interesting idea but in reality it's the answer to a question no one ever had. They're just not necessary and the only reason Germany adopted it is because H&K threw a fit when FNH developed an all-around superior (albeit still unnecessary) cartridge and they talked Germany into adopting it to stop 5.7 from becoming a NATO standard cartridge.  Also, upon further inspection, that's actually a G36 with selectively painted pieces, so that's entirely my bad. I should've noticed the paddle mag release.

 

Well, even among soldiers rumors do run rampart sometimes. Sometimes people blaim their poor performance on range on the rifle rather than saying "Man, I just couldn't hit shit today.". We recently had a shooting exercise with some who never had the G36 in hand before, and they were scoring 10 after 10. The first 4 had scores of 100/100/100/99, I'm dead serious.The rest didn't do badly either. Now obviously the rifles weren't hot and the 10 is rather big(it's not a precision rifle after all), but to not be able to hit anything with it and blame the rifle? Again, skeptical.

 

The G36 IDZ ES uses a Zeiss scope and red dot iirc. I don't see them adopting for something different as a new rifle is already in the making and the some of the existing G36's are still the from the good-old-days(so they would have to brought up to G36 IDZ ES' standards - which you can't).

 

The MP7 does have a niche for CQC, I usually prefer longer firearms over pistols and SMGs, but it's just a pretty neat weapon for the right situations.

I noticed the paddle but I didn't know how the HK416s mag release looks like :P

 

While I agree that it might be fine in design, the problem is we have to look at the reality rather than the possibilities. The G36 has problems with polymers in reality and therefore it has these issues. The application of the rifle in real life matters a whole lot more than how it could be adopted. For instance, the F-104 was a pretty amazing interceptor, but America sold it to Canada and Germany as a dive bomber, so while in theory the F-104 was an awesome plane, they ended up being lawn darts that were absolutely atrocious. 

 

Read about it in an article a few months ago and if I'm not mistaken, some changes were made to the F-104 that made the jet very finnicky in terms of starting and landing resulting in a lot of crashes. Maybe I'll dig up the article later today.

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Sorry, guys...

I propose to talk about ammo. Yesterday I did 5 or 6 shots from AK-74 in US-soldier (in SQUAD ofcourse) and only then he dropped. But when I played aka US-soldier with M4, I did only 2-3 shots to drop RU-soldier down. What about ammo? Maybe DEVs will look in 7N10 or 7N24 direction as a most convenient ammo for US and RF confrontation?

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Sorry, guys...

I propose to talk about ammo. Yesterday I did 5 or 6 shots from AK-74 in US-soldier (in SQUAD ofcourse) and only then he dropped. But when I played aka US-soldier with M4, I did only 2-3 shots to drop RU-soldier down. What about ammo? Maybe DEVs will look in 7N10 or 7N24 direction as a most convenient ammo for US and RF confrontation?

 

The only one thing matters - damage value for weapon.Check for configs file.

Typically the most games have idea,that the bigger caliber have higher damage values.Probably there is same.

Or probably it's just desync.I always keep AK74 at semi,and it's effective,at least for me,sometimes even one bullet kills.

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5,45 and 5,56 have almost identical damage values in Squad, but hitting different zones deal different damage, try to shoot them in torso.

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There is many weapons here to drool over, like hk 416/417, but how would you make them feel different in game over existing weapons? What could they add other than a cool skin? And are they likely used by any of the current factions?

 

But what I have seen suggested in this thread wich is at least half legit, that I totally would get behind, is some sort of G3. 

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5,45 and 5,56 have almost identical damage values in Squad, but hitting different zones deal different damage, try to shoot them in torso.

 

This! I need to stop instinctively trying for headshots - it's satisfying to drop them in one shot but you lose the target quicker in recoil.

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There is many weapons here to drool over, like hk 416/417, but how would you make them feel different in game over existing weapons? What could they add other than a cool skin? And are they likely used by any of the current factions?

 

But what I have seen suggested in this thread wich is at least half legit, that I totally would get behind, is some sort of G3.

That is why we will be okay with small amount of authentic guns.

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Interesting facts Russia's loadout.Again.

1)Squad leader is Junior sergeant or Sergeant.They don't have pistols.The pistols starts from Officers.

2)The main Officers pistol is PM(Makarov) in a standart belt sheat.

 

360px-Holsters_PM.jpg

midlle_koburaust.jpg

28.jpg

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I'm a slut for more in-depth information about army loadouts.

But while I've heard that people prefer the PM to the MP-443, are there any classes and kits that can possess a pistol?

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Interesting facts Russia's loadout.Again.

1)Squad leader is Junior sergeant or Sergeant.They don't have pistols.The pistols starts from Officers.

2)The main Officers pistol is PM(Makarov) in a standart belt sheat.

 

your average US Army sergeant isn't getting one either unless he pulls rank. I think it's just there to be a symbol of authority since we don't have a real "commander" yet

 

also selection between PM and PYa is coming with inventory selection

 

 

But while I've heard that people prefer the PM to the MP-443

 
Think about what pistols are ACTUALLY used for and that makes sense...

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But while I've heard that people prefer the PM to the MP-443, are there any classes and kits that can possess a pistol?

 

Only SF able to prefer and choose weapon on their needs.

You're unable to choose weapon in regular forces.

 

 

your average US Army sergeant isn't getting one either unless he pulls rank. I think it's just there to be a symbol of authority since we don't have a real "commander" yet

 

Well,maybe.

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Only SF able to prefer and choose weapon on their needs.

You're unable to choose weapon in regular forces.

Warfare conditions change rules. Soldiers in A-stan and Chechnya didn't always follow regulations of peace time.

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Warfare conditions change rules. Soldiers in A-stan and Chechnya didn't always follow regulations of peace time.

 

So,you're regular soldier.Whatever even officer.Where did you find a diffirent pistol?

Yes,change AK74 to AKM was possible,but there was a lot of it.

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Warfare conditions change rules. Soldiers in A-stan and Chechnya didn't always follow regulations of peace time.

 

Truer words have never been spoken. Standards get thrown out the window when it comes to convenience in the field. From Marines destroying their helmet cover to get some shade on their neck on Peleliu to Russian soldiers using 45 round Bakelite mags as their standard magazines in Chechnya, rarely will you see proper usage of standards on the battlefield if it sacrifices comfort and safety. 

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Please add PKM, PKP (also scoped version for russian army) and M60 for OpFor! :)

PKM and PKP have already been discussed and are on the way from what we can all gather. Why an M60 for the Militia? They're kind of hunks of crap, especially when you don't have the ability to maintain them (which the Militia would not). Friendly reminder that the M60's receiver is made of 8 pieces of metal that are welded together which splits apart at higher round counts, which is such an issue that the US Navy (about the only people still using the thing) has been made to order spare receivers.

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Oh, not exactly a weapon suggestion, but how common are Grip Pods (or grippods) in the Army relative to KAC foregrips? I heard that they won a contract with the US Armed Forces and were used in Afghanistan. People I spoke to also seemed to like their grippods a lot.

 

Do you think these stuff would be nice to see in the game, especially if their bipods had some functionality? An M68 and a top-mounted AN/PEQ-15 and a Grip Pod, throw on KAC rail covers and I'm all in. <3

 

Of course, I'm not saying they should take priority over GPMGs, shotguns and animation changes, but I do kinda hope there's something in store for them, especially if the Marines come in with their M16A4s :D

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