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Hi all,

I'm posting from my phone so please forgive the lack of any in-depth explanations and spelling issues.

I'd like to know how much value the Devs plan to put on player's lives in-game, and what mechanics will they introduce to ensure that players value their lives and don't treat death as an "oh well, fresh start" or clone?

I ask this because PR's flagship gamemode, AAS is won and lost on tickets, and it infuriates me to see many games lost simply because of the low value people place on their own lives. Squads throw themselves at heavily fortified objectives recreating scenes akin to the Normandy Beach Landings, getting slaughtered, giving up, and repeating the same, or players who almost instantly go for the 'Give Up' button mid-firefight, when if they wait 2 mins for it to die down, their medic will pick them up.

I have a rule in squads that I lead, that there are only 2 times people may give up:

1. I tell them to.

2. EVERYONE in the squad has been downed (not necessarily 'dead dead'), and there are no nearby players who can come and pick up the medic kit(s) to revive people.

I think about the bigger picture. I'm a team player, and if waiting 4 minutes for the APC that slaughtered us to get bored and move on, so that our sole-surviving player can grab the medic kit and revive the entire squad is what it takes to save our team 7 tickets, then so be it.

Every death is a ticket loss, and I think people forget this too easily. Like voting, people think 'I don't matter'. If 3 squads of 8 people think that twice in a round, that's 48 tickets out of 300 of 'matter'. Every death matters.

If it weren't for the obvious boredom that would follow death in a one-life-only gamemode, I would love it.

PR introduces spawn delays and the loss of your kit as incentives to not give up, but I don't think it works well enough, and can penalise situations where its not your fault that you have to give up (sitation 2 as above, or ran over by your transport vehicle).

Please discuss!

EDIT: Just to add, ticket loss isn't the only reason I have those rules. My tactics often depend on doing what the rest of my team ISN'T. I.e. Defending the flag we just captured, or more often than not, getting ahead of the game and inserting ourselves in the next capping position when it's soon to come in into play. These manoeuvres require time, effort, and stealth. By giving up in those situations, we lose our position on the map and would be back at base thumbing for a lift.

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Life or death that is the question.

If players play poorly they loose if they play good they win, let the players decide what is the best for them. If it makes you unhappy camper then well you are playing with wrong team if they are dump mofos and waste valuable tickets!?

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It would require some serious thinking to give the player a sort of "reward" and add to the list of why they should value their life rather than punishing them for clicking give up or just generally not thinking about what they're doing. I think a lot of the time it's just the general player interaction - in PR people get impatient waiting for a medic especially when all you can see is a black screen.

 

The only idea I have currently is to minimize that kind of blindness and give more feedback to the player so they at least have a clear idea of how close someone is. Something like a hint on screen saying "Nearest Medic - X meters". You can get a pretty quick idea of whether someone is coming or not or if someone isn't doing their job and it just lowers the level of impatience.

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The problem is that you play with people who don't care about winning the game and would rather just run into MG fire for 45 minutes. It's unfortunately a commonplace thing on public 100/100 servers.

 

I'm not sure that there's any gameplay mechanics that could fix this problem though...

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When I read the title I thought this was gonna be a deep philosophical thread :)

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This is something I'm really interested in, for a couple of reasons. One is the one you mentioned. The other is to determine if people will actually grab a helicopter to retrieve a single survivor that got pinned down in some far-off sector of the map.

 

I learned one thing when playing America's Army. Life was valuable, but at a cost that eventually got my interest in the game to reduce into oblivion: time. If I managed to get myself killed, I could be looking at a 15 min waiting period before I could continue on playing. That, eventually, revealed itself to be a deterrent to picking up the game, as a couple of bad decisions (or flanks =P) could easily win me a half-hour time out.

 

I'm inclined to think that forcing a player to wait from 2 to 5 minutes before respawning would significantly increase the value of one's own life, without going as far as to invite the player to find another server as soon as they get shot. However, as far as the lives of team mates go, concerning that extraction scenario I mentioned, I'm really curious to know what the devs are planning.

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Would be nice if the game notified you how many tickets your team would lose by giving up.

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How about the amount of time you wait before giving up accumulates and lowers your respawn wait time?

ALSO...

(Separate)

Maybe if a player is constantly giving up it begins to take away an item from their inventory (ex. Rifleman: *2 consecutive give-ups without waiting 1 minute and a medic is within 100m*, it takes away 1 magazine from your maximum ammo pool for both weapons(meaning you cannot go above the new number in magazines from re-supplying either.)

3 or 4~ consecutive give-ups without doing the above procedure and one grenade is taken away from your items as well as another magazine.)

This process of removal could be done in different ways for each kit and all have a maximum amount that can be taken; In the Rifleman's case the minimum he can have left could be: Only two magazines in reserve for both his primary and secondary, and either 1 grenade or none at all (Depending on how harsh you want to be with it.)

***Now, before you say that is unfair, I have not made the full system for how many deaths take away what amount of each, but it would be after the player has given-up without waiting 1 minute while a medic is within 100m at least 6 times consecutively, *assuming the rifleman has 8 magazines in his primary and 2 grenades*

**How is this realistic? It simulates enough constant casualties that supplies are "running low" (But this would only matter for players who have been giving-up blatantly to deter them from it.) People who did not fall under the circumstances where it starts the process do not have to worry about their items being taken.

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I feel like this topic is covered by simply 'learn how to play.'

Theres only so much the devs can do to help inspire players to play the game in intelligent and tactical ways.

If a teams running headfirst into MG fire because theyre just plain stupid and arent patient enough to pull a tactical retreat or try to call in mortars or CAS, and then waste a good chunk of their teams tickets, thats ultimately their problem. And I totally understand from a SL viewpoint, ive had nothing but shit experiences in PR lately playing on servers full of people who are brand new, dont ask questions and didnt read a single paragraph of the manual. Not to mention the non-English speaking players joining AMERICAN servers and then starting CAS and TRANS squads. And then people wonder why CAS isnt helping -- because theyre not answering my calls over SL radio because I dont speak their language. But back to my point... ultimately I feel that the devs can definitely introduce ways in which people value their 'ticket' more than they may right now in PR.. but at the end of the day the whole point of the competitive aspect of the match is to beat the other team. Be better than them. If your team loses primarily because they all have an extremely limited, narrow viewpoint of how tactics work on an entire team level and just waste themselves through garbage strategies, then, well, hope the other team sucks at shooting I guess. Or be like me and stop playing PR as often because this is literally all that ever happens when I play. :/

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PR is the only game where i've actually felt sadness when i found myself in a position that i knew i was going to die in. last man in alive, wounded, in a small building with rounds incoming and increasing, hearing the enemies close in; trying hopelessly to out run and escape an IFV 25mm. 

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I remember a round in PR in wich i was supressed for over one hour in a building and i just lay there... until the round ended! I had the time of my life in a game even though i was just laying on the floor thinking i would die any second now.

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I remember a round in PR in wich i was supressed for over one hour in a building and i just lay there... until the round ended! I had the time of my life in a game even though i was just laying on the floor thinking i would die any second now.

 

Oh god...

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I would make so giving up cost personal score pts, like every time you give up, it would cost you around 2-3 kills worth of pts ...

 

( But caindabox suggesting would be a realy good ideal imo "How about the amount of time you wait before giving up accumulates and lowers your respawn wait time?")

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I have no emotional value to my pixel character on my screen!... :lol:

then you are not a gamer! :)

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You might be right...I prefer to go out on my 200bhp SuperBike!... :lol:

 

I'm not a game whore,I stay faithfull to games I play, 10yrs+ JO,Delta Force gamer and now it will be Squad!

 

Not gonna cry when my pixel gets shot...Play for Fun and to Win!... :) 

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i dont play games too much, at least not as much as id like, but when i do play i get really into it--hardcore!

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You might be right...I prefer to go out on my 200bhp SuperBike!... :lol:

 

I'm not a game whore,I stay faithfull to games I play, 10yrs+ JO,Delta Force gamer and now it will be Squad!

 

Not gonna cry when my pixel gets shot...Play for Fun and to Win!... :) 

Oh yeah, like, look at me! I am tough guy! I don’t cry over game! I don’t get emotional over stuff... yeah, right, let’s be honest:

Imagine u ride ur bike...like... 300kph and hit wall. Now, bike is crashed and u want to tell me u wont shed a tear or something cause of that?! Oh c’mon man!

 

just kiddin...i guess u ride liter bike...pls man ride safe and watch out of thouse stupid cagers...even cagers hate cagers :)

 

Back on topic:

 

I really hope they make suppressive fire effect from PR or something like that...that's a thing that saved me in a lot of firefights. Instict kicks in and force u to keep ur head low and reposition ur self. And its only logical thing to do: ur vision is blured and u are not effective. I am not sure, i think deviation get worse also. Just to compare: in ARMA or OFP, i didnt do that at all. My reaction was to trace incoming shots and return fire. Even hearing bullet wizz by my avatar's head... I always felt that suppressive fire was never done properly by BI. And judging by gameplay streams from Squad, they seem to follow same path. I think they said somewhere they wont do ti like in PR but i am not sure...dont quote me on that.

 

And, in a way, suppression effect is quite important. Usually, in engagement, one element (buddy team, fire team, squad...) is fixing enemy while other element is manuvering to close in and eliminate threat. That fixing part of engagement is very effectively done by suppressive fire.

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Imagine u ride ur bike...like... 300kph and hit wall. Now, bike is crashed and u want to tell me u wont shed a tear or something cause of that?! Oh c’mon man!

 

 

LoL bruv...The only crying I'd be making is throu my Butthole at that speeds!... :lol:

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Yeah, but you're the kind of guy who's on a side that'll lose from tickets. That being said, I hate the last time I played PR since it seemed like no one gave a shit about tickets and medics might rez you, but only if you're in their squad. PR is so much better when people give a shit.

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Just increase the spawn time. Problem solved...

I would say to about at least 6 - 8 minutes.

Or...

You can not give up when medics are near. Let us say 1km?

In this case the nearest medic should somehow get alarmed, downed soldier nearby... Mebe interferance in to Squad channel...

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