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Karm

How to suppress?

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25 minutes ago, KTMR29 said:

I'm hooked and can't complain about the quality of this. So forgive my tone sometimes, it's not being an ass, it's just me wanting Squad to succeed. Maybe too much.

 

I'm the same way, so no worries.

Edited by Insano

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SAW at the moment is heavily OP when they are walking and shooting at the same time, they got almost perfect accuracy and i have seen SAW gunners just walking around like Rambo. Hope this gets fixed very soon!

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at this point of state the LMGs are most likely Rifles with more ammunition... the RPK74 is for me one of the best guns in the game tho

SAW is more like the suppression gun... lacks the CQ skills which the RPK has, but for mid to long range suppression better than the RPK because of way more bullets in the mag

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There is no suppression in this game. At least if you compare it to project reality. It made people piss their pants when rounds came in. Well before you where used to it or when lit.

 

More suppression!!

Edited by Willertz

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I very often playing with LMG. For me its not machine to take down its machine for somebody pin down and blind him. Disorient him. And somebody else protect. 

Effective LMG for me is far distance fire. When you prone far from battle line and you know where your squad or other guys will move. You know from report of your squadmate where enemy is or you focus at positions where you really dont want enemy. So example 

River side flag at Chora AAS v1 US side. I know that squad will move alongside road at NW from Flag down to S. I sit with LMG (imagine opened map) NE 200 m away from Flag. With visibility at roofs, N entrances, NW corner of flag compound. E fields and E wall. I sit and destroy my silhouette with small trees which are there. Iam not using open space or grass because grass will be taking out for that distance if somebody will look my direction. Iam checking my map where my squad mates are and when thay start moving I say "suppressing fire, N side of A-flag". 

Now imagine what happen in head of enemies in compound. 

- somebody shooting at us from NE. Lets check it. Pop up head. Piong ACOg hit from NW or get suppress by me. I focus at N entrance and small scaffold in middle of N wall. Switchin targeting. 3 - 5 bullets. Medium fastrepeat frequency. Accuracy is not great but with little practice you can hit target pretty scary for enemy. And your fire is not so loud because of distance. 

- Enemy can stay now at N side behind walls. Thinking if they take a look. But distance is so far that they will see nothing. Disoriating. My squad is protected until they start storm compound. 

- somebody could be at roof with SVD. pined down he have to find way out. SVD blinded. It could be even GL or enemy LMG. 

- They can get out from SE and try find out my position at E from A - flag. Disoriating. Bigger dangerous coming from NW for them. 

- They cant make counterattack alongside N wall. Blinded. They have now just 2 options. W entrance where my squad is. Or S. My squad can predict this movement and take care about it. 

- With LMG you can define where enemy will move. But this doesnt work if LMG sit is 50 m from enemy. You need 200m at least. Its  human psychology nothing more. 

So basically for me LMG role is not about high Kill score at end. Usually I have very bad score and just few kills. But have a good and responsible LMG in squad is very valuable during Clan Wars or Squad League. You can blind enemy SVD and protect your assaulting squad. No because suppress screen effect. But because he will just take different way where to look. where to move.  And usually at that time Beez or TonkTonk or Hobo comming and start killing streak because of "hello surprise knock knock". And when I looked videos from matches  I saw how damn effective it is. For example admin camera show me that I pined 3 guys and I thought that there was just one. Grenade finished them and they didnt have clue what happened.

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8 hours ago, PinguThePenguin said:

 

 

1 hour ago, bilsantu said:

You can see that the SAW gunner is with his team, he's not alone and isolated. And the tactical setup doesn't allow for wide arc of fire, thus shelters him from SVD fire 360° no Scope etc etc etc etc. Best defensive system IRL are those pesky eyes in your team.

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I love how many conflicting opinions I found here. Some people say the SAW is useless, cause it's got too much recoil, others complain about SAW being too accurate. Some people say it's best used in clearing rooms in close combat, the others say you need at least 200m distance to use it effectively :D I'm not even going to talk about the RPK, because that is just an AK with a larger magazine and more tracer rounds in it atm.

I agree with the assessment that the bipods and weapon resting are not going to change the way LMG's work that much. They're still going to be a HUGE "Heeeey, I'm heeeereee!!!" sign whenever they shoot. When I play as the US or militia and I hear my SAW gunner pop a few rounds, my first instinct is to get the f*uck away from him, cause there is going to be all kinds of hell landing on the poor LMG guy soon. That's the effect LMG's have on me right now :D

The suppression doesn't work because people are still not afraid to die. They rush, they go yolo mode, because they know they can get picked up or respawn really fast. The game is still too fast for this to work in this stage.

Edited by MultiSquid

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I think that some people thing that supression is uquivalent to "freeze enemy entirely for a few shots in general enemy direction".

I did like Eleriks description immensely.

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8 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

I love how many conflicting opinions I found here. Some people say the SAW is useless, cause it's got too much recoil, others complain about SAW being too accurate. Some people say it's best used in clearing rooms in close combat, the others say you need at least 200m distance to use it effectively :D I'm not even going to talk about the RPK, because that is just an AK with a larger magazine and more tracer rounds in it atm.

I agree with the assessment that the bipods and weapon resting are not going to change the way LMG's work that much. They're still going to be a HUGE "Heeeey, I'm heeeereee!!!" sign whenever they shoot. When I play as the US or militia and I hear my SAW gunner pop a few rounds, my first instinct is to get the f*uck away from him, cause there is going to be all kinds of hell landing on the poor LMG guy soon. That's the effect LMG's have on me right now :D

Add supported mode and the MG becomes an execution tool. Set up a kill-zone with it, let the guys walk in, lay accurate automatic fire and zoom, no more travelling enemy squad. PKM ambush in PR was always fun.

Lack of a supported mode is why the machine guns are struggling right now to have a definitive tactical role. 

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1 hour ago, bilsantu said:

It's not letting me delete my previous quotes, wtf forum! -MultiSquid

 

3 minutes ago, WARti0k0ne -BG- said:

I think that some people thing that supression is uquivalent to "freeze enemy entirely for a few shots in general enemy direction".

I did like Eleriks description immensely.

Elerik described an ideal situation in which everyone knows what he's doing an cooperates flawlessly. As much as I'd like to see that more often, these things just don't happen that much.

2 minutes ago, KTMR29 said:

Add supported mode and the MG becomes an execution tool. Set up a kill-zone with it, let the guys walk in, lay accurate automatic fire and zoom, no more travelling enemy squad. PKM ambush in PR was always fun.

Lack of a supported mode is why the machine guns are struggling right now to have a definitive tactical role. 

We'll see, I definitely want to see LMG's used more, maybe I'm wrong and the weapon resting will actually make all the difference, but for the time being I will pick a grenadier over them any day.

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2 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

 

Elerik described an ideal situation in which everyone knows what he's doing an cooperates flawlessly. As much as I'd like to see that more often, these things just don't happen that much.

We'll see, I definitely want to see LMG's used more, maybe I'm wrong and the weapon resting will actually make all the difference, but for the time being I will pick a grenadier over them any day.

There have been situations that I wished I could hit the dirt deploy and paint a mudwall with red and brown. Alas not possible so nade went first then the the whole wild muzzle jump dance. And I still didn't get them all. Disappointed.

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Suppression in general isn't a thing in Squad yet. The suppression effect (getting the tunnel vision) has no effect on your recoil or movability. It just takes away a bit of your vision, but you are still able to fight/fire back.

Therefore spraying your AR has mostly only one effect: Screaming "I AM RIGHT HERE, LAYING DOWN, NOT MOVING.", while your tracers underline this even more.

You will barely see any AR's spraying their bullets as suppression support in competitive matches, just because it makes no sense ( at the moment ).

 

The Dev's talked about this in other threads: suppression will be adjusted in the future.

 

Edited by Endgame

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Once bipod and resting functionality are added a lot will change regarding MGs and most weapons (be able to rest a SVD rather than precariously place yourself in a awkward exposed position).

Also once GPMGs are added then the real fun begins.

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Just my thought's on AR LMG suppression fire, generally.

1. Be in concealment or even better hard cover
2. Use short burst fire and scan hard
3. Move regularly, even a small distance will help enemy not target you so accurately
4. Only suppress, when your team understands why your suppressing. i.e they should be trying to achieve something
5. AR's IMO should sit back a bit, or off at an angle
6. If your at long range, and the enemy has a sniper around be very careful

I rarely see effective suppression in Squad right now, but then again I rarely see the basics of a Squad tactics being deployed (as I understand them, simple lose formations, moving cover to cover, bounding, peeling, buddy system etc).

This isn't a wholly negative statement, theres plenty of good players and moments of teamwork (and i'm having a blast playing the game). I think the game needs to be balanced and gameplay tested specifically, if indeed Squad tactics are to be utilised more and of course training with a team, regularly will massively improve your Squad performance.

But then again theres 2 kind of Squad players I meet often, those that just want to 'win', and those that want to be immersed in Squad tactics and understand you win some, you lose some but you get a little better if you play in a 'certain' way. I'm in the immersion camp.

Edited by ShoshinUK

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3 minutes ago, PinguThePenguin said:

Once bipod and resting functionality are added a lot will change regarding MGs and most weapons (be able to rest a SVD rather than precariously place yourself in a awkward exposed position).

Also once GPMGs are added then the realith fun begins.

Without enhancing the suppression effect they will be just another death trap like in battlefield.

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This thread raises another relevant question I think. 

 

Can you really pin enemy down in Squad?

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Only with this

Not realistic but then again.. bullets to create dust that is likely to fly into your eye's or hit your goggles. 

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4 minutes ago, bilsantu said:

This thread raises another relevant question I think. 

 

Can you really pin enemy down in Squad?

Yes, been pinned down like a nail on a cross. From VERY close range on Chora and Sumari. Unfortunately in one occasion SAW guy was also hacking. Which I found out much later. Oh well he got naded and kicked anyway. But indeed you can. And it's not a funny experience. 

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47 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Elerik described an ideal situation in which everyone knows what he's doing an cooperates flawlessly. As much as I'd like to see that more often, these things just don't happen that much.

53 minutes ago, KTMR29 said:

I described how I do that. It works even with full of pubs squad. But You just need predict how your squad will move. Its not hard. I described most obvious situation for good reading and understanding how somebody can try it. There are more trick how to work with LMG. Even fals tracer fire. doing illusions and other stuff. I spent rellay many many hours as LMG and have big fun with this kit. 

Ideal best situation is if AR guy have one friend around who defend flanks and taking watch where enemies are located. Thats ideal :) 

There I will show 2 example situations where I worked like LMG. 

1. situation. Check how I disoriented guy in second floor. And give time to our RPG for accurate fire. 

https://youtu.be/_ktwAjB-nkU?t=1136

2. situation. I pined guys at roof N police station. And our could move closer to. I fire through trees and didn't see where the roof exactly is. But 3 guys was pined. Blinded. And it gave friendlies time to cross field. honestly I know about just one guy who was there. 

https://youtu.be/kq6YCfP_Yc4?t=1991

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1 hour ago, elerik said:

I described how I do that. It works even with full of pubs squad. But You just need predict how your squad will move. Its not hard. I described most obvious situation for good reading and understanding how somebody can try it. There are more trick how to work with LMG. Even fals tracer fire. doing illusions and other stuff. I spent rellay many many hours as LMG and have big fun with this kit. 

Ideal best situation is if AR guy have one friend around who defend flanks and taking watch where enemies are located. Thats ideal :) 

There I will show 2 example situations where I worked like LMG. 

1. situation. Check how I disoriented guy in second floor. And give time to our RPG for accurate fire. 

https://youtu.be/_ktwAjB-nkU?t=1136

2. situation. I pined guys at roof N police station. And our could move closer to. I fire through trees and didn't see where the roof exactly is. But 3 guys was pined. Blinded. And it gave friendlies time to cross field. honestly I know about just one guy who was there. 

https://youtu.be/kq6YCfP_Yc4?t=1991

Yeah, I don't think that saying "this can be done in a pub enviroment" and providing squad league footage to back that claim up really works. I still stand by my conviction that what you described in your previous post can be done and should be done, but in reality it doesn't happen often because the majority of people are undisciplined pubs. And since all of the 260+ hours I've spent ingame were in pub environment with randoms, I kinda know what I'm talking about.

This thread actually got me thinking and just moments ago I finished a few games playing as a SAW gunner. I have to say it was fun, I enjoyed laying down a hail of bullets on my adversaries, I will definitely play with this kit a little bit more. Even shooting while crouched or standing at longer distances was manageable if you're just one-tapping.

Edited by MultiSquid

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Yeah one-taping SAW gun is one of these tricks :) its really accurate. And you can slowly move forward and tap tap tap to enemy position for loooooong time while your friends sprint and pop nade at them :). I do that with rifle too but its very fast empty.

 

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Another factor is the environment, Chora, Sumari and Fools Road provide much more cover and concealment than say Kohat.

It's easier to use a MG for suppression in a urban environment (or a environment that provides plenty of cover e.g. Chora) due to the fact that there are so many firing positions to check, on Kohat you can zero in on a MG really easily due to the fact that most of the terrain is mountainous therefor exposing people who want to shoot at you.

Once urban maps arrive suppression will become a real problem for infantry (more so than it is now).

I'm not sure on bullet penetration (whether it will be added or not) but if it is suppression will become much more scary, shielding yourself from gunfire behind light walls and other objects will no longer be viable, you'll begin planning out routes and what to do if you come under fire on said route, you'll stop sprinting to the nearest object for cover because it may not protect you and start thinking about what's good cover and what's not.

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PinguThePenguin

Totally true. This is another important fact. Keep in mind terrain. Very hard map for AR is OP first light and Kohat. Who will master AR at these two map he will have no problem anywhere. 

With bullet penetration it will be dangerous weapon. And some kind of penetration will come if I remember right. 

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On 3/9/2016 at 4:19 PM, Karm said:


. . . Let's just assume I have an LMG. If I want to get kills, I have to either be pretty close or use single shots. But if I want to suppress - what it's supposed to be for - I ALWAYS die or get hit within 5 seconds of starting. ALWAYS.

Who says that you can't suppress using single fire? The point of suppression is to keep the enemy pinned so that an assaulting fire team can outmaneuver.

At long distances, suppression with very short bursts and even single fire is absolutely acceptable / effective.

I remember playing the other night where there was a squad of baddies coming down the hill to district center from Hill 15. I was on the opposite eastern hill and was pinning them down behind the rocks with accurate single fire suppression. Every time some one made a run for it, or peeped out their head, I sent a few well aimed shots their way and they would either freak and run around like idiots or hunker down behind the rocks. All the while the rest of my squad was taking District Center.

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