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ShaunOfCathay

On the overdone genre "World War Two"

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23 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

You really need your own thread because you're derailing the negativity towards WWII games by describing and showing what could turn out to be the best ever.

 

17 hours ago, Jimieus said:

As someone who worked on FH2, I would just say to those salivating over WIP shots - don't get too excited/daunted by them - these projects all have a long way to go.

 

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1 hour ago, ShaunOfCathay said:


Um, okay. 

Well, yeah of course if you combine two fps settings its probably going to be larger than anyone setting...

HOLY SHIT, I'm not saying World War Two is overdone, I'm saying the European theatre is overdone. And again, if you combine modern and future settings its probably a given that the games are going to outnumber "world war two". And, okay thats like your opinion, which is okay, you can have opinions, but BF1942 was not actually that great compared to later Battlefields, it really only succeeded the way it did because of its then-pretty radical new playstyle and forumla, not because it was WW2. RO2, sure love, its great, I agree. Didn't really even include Wolfenstein as its more alt history than WW2, but sure its pretty great, I agree. But good on you for not actually mentioning Call of Duty, which as much as disdain the current games suck, it is the one game/franchise that actually defined its (initial) success, playstyle, and mechanics on the "WW2" setting; it crafted its narrative set pieces and vocal NPCs around the story of soldiers in that war and perfected it in Call of Duty 2 of which you apparently call crappy. Not to mention Heroes & Generals which is actually pretty fantastic and is regularly updated by a team of dedicated developers, or Brothers in Arms, or Sniper Elite. 

But what do I know? I'm just a naysayer who maintains reservations for more fps set in "WW2" 

Out of interest, which battles would you like to see recreated?

I'm always keen for interesting ideas.

 

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10 minutes ago, +++++ said:

Out of interest, which battles would you like to see recreated?

I'm always keen for interesting ideas.

 

Are you talking in regards to the European theater itself? or are you asking what theater we would like to see recreated?

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32 minutes ago, PinguThePenguin said:

Are you talking in regards to the European theater itself? or are you asking what theater we would like to see recreated?

Well, Shaun is saying he wants something other than the European theater, and I'm keen to know what battles would interest people. We're really keen to try and push the envelope!

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36 minutes ago, +++++ said:

Well, Shaun is saying he wants something other than the European theater, and I'm keen to know what battles would interest people. We're really keen to try and push the envelope!

Personally I'd like to see Africa, ANZACs and British fighting the Afrika Korps and their allies. Tank combat would be amazing in my opinion.

Edited by PinguThePenguin

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North African Campaign! Heck I'd love to drive round town as an Afrika Korps personel. 

Or at the very least, any overdone theatre, and switch up the factions! Most theatres had multiple factions involved.

I'm saying Western Front again, with the setting where the British and Italians fought. Or the South East Asian theatre, with the ANZAC and the IJP. Or even lesser known wars like the Finnish-Russo war.

A sentence I'd never imagine myself saying, but its time to stop listening to ping, and start cranking that SMLE bolt faster than Mayweather can run!

I think the main issue that gets people sick of the same theatre is how it's constantly portrayed as a battle with the Americans and them "nasty nazis". The British, Canadians and ANZAC all have equally large roles. Not to mention Hungary and China, those 2 are almost never heard of.

51 minutes ago, +++++ said:

Well, Shaun is saying he wants something other than the European theater, and I'm keen to know what battles would interest people. We're really keen to try and push the envelope!

Edited by Blackout330

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34 minutes ago, trotskygrad said:

you really don't

facing a matilda with a carcano is no fun

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/529513838693172688/23A9C844474E7FBECFDFBF66A49E89DA4549EAE5/

taken in 2015 ;)

Pfft, try Red Orchestra 2 when a tank comes running along and you hold your breath IRL in hopes that the tank driver can't hear ya ;)

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1 hour ago, Blackout330 said:

Pfft, try Red Orchestra 2 when a tank comes running along and you hold your breath IRL in hopes that the tank driver can't hear ya ;)

RO2 had shit tank drivers. A lot easier to avoid tbh, especially with the boxed in map design

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1099139929853730068/535993A92FC83A32DE4693B3A550CB7FC011EDFC/

 

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6 minutes ago, trotskygrad said:

RO2 had shit tank drivers. A lot easier to avoid tbh, especially with the boxed in map design

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1099139929853730068/535993A92FC83A32DE4693B3A550CB7FC011EDFC/

 

This, "tank combat" in RO 2 was a complete joke! I love Red Orchestra, It gave me so much back in the day and sometimes I still play Darkest Hour, I also do enjoy RO 2 but it could have been so much better!

Let´s see what Rising Storm 2 will bring to the table, I still am a fan of Tripwire I must say.

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2 hours ago, +++++ said:

Well, Shaun is saying he wants something other than the European theater, and I'm keen to know what battles would interest people. We're really keen to try and push the envelope!

Not exactly outside the European theater, but I would like to see smaller conflicts such as the Winter War represented in gaming. I admit I am biased in my interest in Finland, but I think the conflict offers a great backdrop for some asymmetric gameplay.

We have the Soviets with overwhelming numbers of infantry, tanks, artillery and aircraft and then we have the Finns with the homefield and defenders' advantage, mainly obsolete 19th century and WW1 artillery, a few interwar tanks and aircraft, but with extremely mobile light infantry with plenty of automatic weapons.

The conflict was defined without a doubt by the harshness of the climate it was fought in and that should obviously play a part in any game set in it. Deep snow would hamper the movement of soviet motorized units, limiting them to moving by road or very slowly in the woods, while Finnish units with skis would run circles around the soviet formations. The extreme cold would also force the soviets to keep their tanks running at all times to prevent them from freezing over making them very easy to locate and hear coming, could even possibly go the extra step and limit their in game fuel amount and forcing them to resupply from logistics trucks?

The Finns on the other hand would have many improvised anti-tank weapons, but also limited amounts of horse drawn AT-guns and Vickers 6-ton tanks. The Finnish tanks would be inferior to their soviet counterparts as they were in reality, but while the soviet tanks and vehicle drawn AT would get bogged down by the deep snow or freeze over if not running, the Finnish horse keeps on trucking, even in deep snow and -40 degree weather and silently at that.

What I wouldn't give to be able to crew a Finnish six ton, boresighting the gun onto the side of a T-26 and yelling "TULTA MUNILLE!" before hitting it with a 37 mm round. Ah, a man can dream.

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2 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

I think the main issue that gets people sick of the same theatre is how it's constantly portrayed as a battle with the Americans and them "nasty nazis". The British, Canadians and ANZAC all have equally large roles. Not to mention Hungary and China, those 2 are almost never heard of.

Totally. Normandy was a joint effort between the Brits, Canadians and US and we often only see the battle in the Cotentin - as opposed to the fighting between the Brits and the Germans (a much, much tougher battle for the Allies) against the SS units and the brunt of Panzer Lehr.

So, I'm reading:

Pacific: Aus v Japs
Finland v Russia
North Africa (Tobruk)
El Alamein

 

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I've always thought a Winter war scenario would be interesting as well.

N Africa, while done in the past would be fun again in new game, especially one of this scale.

The Italian campaign. Sicily, Anzio and Monte Cassino are familiar to many, but the fighting continued up the boot through spectacular terrain until the Allies reached the Dolomites.

http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/po/72-33.htm

Edited by LugNut

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Secret missions behind enemy lines.....lots of them are probably still secret.....those were the first spec ops troops that lead to the special forces of today.  Although those guys were just regular soldiers with a little or a lot of special training and kit to do a specific task or mission behind enemy lines.  Some failed bad, some succeeded, but we do not know a lot about the secret missions in WW2.

I would dedicate whole maps and modes to behind enemy lines missions in WW2.  But that's just my ideas....oops that secret!  :)

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if you're really serious about alternate theatres:

 

Russian Marines (see Men of War: Red Tide for some really cool operations never seen in western games, like the defence of sevastapol)

Hungarian/Romanian troops and other operations in Greece and Yugoslavia. Mountainous terrain, real Cavalry, etc.

Invasion of Iran. Soviets and British vs. Iranians.

Manchuria. Soviets vs. Japan

 

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On 10/03/2016 at 1:07 AM, +++++ said:

Out of interest, which battles would you like to see recreated?

I'm always keen for interesting ideas.

 

 Its funny actually, even in the European theatre, the campaigns and battles before Normandy are also very rarely depicted by video games. Early campaigns like the invasions of Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France where the Fallschirmjager played pretty important roles before the pyrrhic victory at Crete. Maps where you could parachute as Fallschirmjagers would be wicked. In one of the early versions of PR:Normandy there was a night version of OP Overlord where the US Army would spawn in C47s as they flew across the map and jump out, all the while tracers from AA batteries lit up the sky (the C47s could actually be shot down). 

Outside of Europe, as you could tell I am really interested in the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, it is a war that as far as I know has never been depicted in video games. And there are so many spectacular battles that happened, like that over Nanking where a last stand took place over the city walls, or the Battle of Shanghai, where grueling street battles took place between the outgunned National Revolutionary Army and the Imperial Japanese Army. The kit of the NRA is actually very interesting as they were first equipped and trained by Germany but were later supplied by Great Britain, the US, and the USSR, so they used a mishmash of firearms and equipment (mostly German weapons as they produced copies of the G88 and G98) but had overall lacked heavy weaponry (they bought a few tanks and artillery here and there) and had to use what they could get their hands on. In many instances, they would use make improvised AT grenades by bundling up stick grenades to either throw or strap onto themselves.  The Japanese on the other hand had mortars, HMGs, armoured cars, tanks, fighters, bombers, and patrol boats. 

 

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I actually visited the Nanjing Massacre Memorial Hall last year and took a few photos of the exhibits on the Battle of Nanking 


ef9fDtq.jpg

This one's not actually from the memorial hall but from Zhongshan Park where part of the battle was fought. Some bullet holes left over in a water resevoir of some sort. 


e6b93d4.jpg

A topographic table map of Nanking at the time. Zhongshan, the water tower/reservoir/thing is somewhere around that pitchfork shaped road on the top right. 


JiyEgng.jpg

IJA Type 2 Ka-MI tanks approach Nanking gates (I could be wrong about the tank types)



iQb5vmg.jpg

IJA soldiers celebrate over one of the west gates. 



E3aa2rf.jpg

IJA soldiers climbing the Nanking wall

 

jNaGOHK.jpg

A simple map of the Battle of Naking



ZpkE6BY.jpg

What looks like a Vickers gun used as an AA emplacement

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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First, the genre is far, FAR from overdone, the last AAA developer who laid his hands on a WW2 shooter with SP and MP was COD: World At War, a game that came out in the end of 2008! That's pretty much 7 years ago! We than mostly had just MP games like RO2 and ww2 mods of other games, but there has not been a big company the last few years that made a great WW2 game again with MP and SP! I currently am mostly sick of modern games but with the exception of Squad, COD at the moment is going so over the top they are going way up into the future, even though there also is the rumor that the next Battlefield will be WW1, but i never see that happen.

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2 hours ago, Cpl.Veld said:

We than mostly had just MP games like RO2 and ww2 mods of other games, 

But a WW2 mod for SQ would also be MP. And I'll eat a shoe if the next battlefield is set in WW1, that would be, very weird to say the least. 

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I don't think WW2 has been overdone. Personally, I am waiting for a next-gen, persistent open world, WW2 game to come along to really do the conflict justice.

All we have had in recent memory is a bunch of glorified arena shooters and shoebox encounters. The only released games that ever came close were BF1942 and WW2online - both of which are now over a decade old. Heroes and Generals comes close but just doesn't have the instanced scale, design or polish to fit my criteria. Other than that, none of the OP's listed examples fall into the category of what I would call a AAA quality, large scale WW2 game.

No, WW2 isn't overdone, and won't be so for the foreseeable future. Regrettably.

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1 hour ago, Jimieus said:

I don't think WW2 has been overdone. Personally, I am waiting for a next-gen, persistent open world, WW2 game to come along to really do the conflict justice.

All we have had in recent memory is a bunch of glorified arena shooters and shoebox encounters. The only released games that ever came close were BF1942 and WW2online - both of which are now over a decade old. Heroes and Generals comes close but just doesn't have the instanced scale, design or polish to fit my criteria. Other than that, none of the OP's listed examples fall into the category of what I would call a AAA quality, large scale WW2 game.

No, WW2 isn't overdone, and won't be so for the foreseeable future. Regrettably.

I know you're not my biggest fan, but that is exactly my feeling too. I hope our game can get somewhere near what you (and I) hope for.

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On 3/10/2016 at 5:35 AM, XRobinson said:

Secret missions behind enemy lines.....lots of them are probably still secret.....those were the first spec ops troops that lead to the special forces of today.  Although those guys were just regular soldiers with a little or a lot of special training and kit to do a specific task or mission behind enemy lines.  Some failed bad, some succeeded, but we do not know a lot about the secret missions in WW2.

I would dedicate whole maps and modes to behind enemy lines missions in WW2.  But that's just my ideas....oops that secret!  :)

We would like to do a Resistance gameplay mode pits a team of Polish resistance fighters against the Nazi occupiers.

Also, I've been doing forest testing today and I'm pretty happy with the results (getting 60 FPS)

Iz9brLT.jpg

 

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