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ShaunOfCathay

On the overdone genre "World War Two"

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6 minutes ago, +++++ said:

Thanks Major. Yes, this is in UE4 (although we're trying to avoid that plastic look that UE4 so often gives).

snip

I have to say just looking at your screenshots you have captured the countryside of Normandy as I know it (frequent visitor), especially the barn. If you had just shown me that picture and asked me where it was taken from my first thoughts would be of that region. Well done. It sounds as if you will be applying a lot of attention to the environments which, to me, is very important with the graphical engines and PC hardware that are now available. The environment you're in, when modeled well, is what actually takes you there and immerses you along with the sound. I hope you can find someone at least half as good as Anders in this regard. The first time I ventured out of the Russian spawn and into the forests on OP First Light I was blown away with how real that felt however without good sound it's very sterile.

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+++++   
On 8 March 2016 at 11:31 PM, Major Trouble said:

I have to say just looking at your screenshots you have captured the countryside of Normandy as I know it (frequent visitor), especially the barn. If you had just shown me that picture and asked me where it was taken from my first thoughts would be of that region. Well done. It sounds as if you will be applying a lot of attention to the environments which, to me, is very important with the graphical engines and PC hardware that are now available. The environment you're in, when modeled well, is what actually takes you there and immerses you along with the sound. I hope you can find someone at least half as good as Anders in this regard. The first time I ventured out of the Russian spawn and into the forests on OP First Light I was blown away with how real that felt however without good sound it's very sterile.

Thanks! We're modelling all our buildings on photo reference of what we consider to be archetypal buildings from each theater. Normandy obviously is famous for its barns (which we're extending to hayloft and enclosed farm courtyards), its grey stone buildings, its churches (we're basing ours on St Mere Eglise), its hedgerows and flat landscape, and it's waterways. I come from a film VFX background and am very heavy into art direction and making sure things look as they should. Our lead 3D artist is also a trained architect and so understand what makes a structure logically correct. To that end, our current sound designer mixes for major motion pictures, and it's from his sound library that the majority of our SFX comes. I consider RO2 to be the benchmark is suppression and combat simulation post-processing, so we're using that as our reference. Squad does a fantastic job also, though obviously RO2 is of the era.

This is a boring little scene test to make sure the rural areas feel right. The wall is WIP - we will have damaged elements to them. A lot of the time there were weird pairings of Fallschirmjager (our model seen here for scale as I compose the scene) with Panzer Lehr elements. The majority of the Panzer Lehr armour was kept hidden in buildings, ruins and under tree cover to protect them from incessant allied air attack (our little Hanomag can be seen in the barn).

aiA0pr9.jpg

Edited by +++++

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22 hours ago, LugNut said:

I feel your pain OP, I'd be happy to never see Carentan again unless I'm actually there sitting in a cafe. I'm curious to see if those Rng COD2/DOD clones will become popular, they have zero appeal to me.

I do prefer WW2 shooters, I like the history and weapons, but I'd welcome a move into lesser known theaters and battles.

MEN OF WAR RED TIDE

10 ROUNDS, A SVT-38, AND A BAYONET

 

+++++ does your project have any relation to festung europa? or is it separate?

Edited by trotskygrad

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8 hours ago, +++++ said:

Thanks! We're modelling all our buildings on photo reference of what we consider to be archetypal buildings from each theater. Normandy obviously is famous for its barns (which we're extending to hayloft and enclosed farm courtyards), its grey stone buildings, its churches (we're basing ours on St Mere Eglise), its hedgerows and flat landscape, and it's waterways. I come from a film VFX background and am very heavy into art direction and making sure things look as they should. To that end, our current sound designer mixes for major motion pictures, and it's from his sound library that the majority of our SFX comes. I consider RO2 to be the benchmark is suppression and combat simulation post-processing, so we're using that as our reference. Squad does a fantastic job also, though obviously RO2 is of the era.

This is a boring little scene test to make sure the rural areas feel right. The wall is WIP - we will have damaged elements to them. A lot of the time there were weird pairings of Fallschirmjager (our model seen here for scale as I compose the scene) with Panzer Lehr elements. The majority of the Panzer Lehr armour was kept hidden in buildings, ruins and under tree cover to protect them from incessant allied air attack (our little Hanomag can be seen in the barn).

aiA0pr9.jpg

I can hide tanks? It's not unusual.

vDNZM1D.gif

Seriously though I think it's amazing, I don't think any other game has done it in this fashion?

 

Edited by PinguThePenguin

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3 hours ago, +++++ said:

Thanks! We're modelling all our buildings on photo reference of what we consider to be archetypal buildings from each theater. Normandy obviously is famous for its barns (which we're extending to hayloft and enclosed farm courtyards), its grey stone buildings, its churches (we're basing ours on St Mere Eglise), its hedgerows and flat landscape, and it's waterways. I come from a film VFX background and am very heavy into art direction and making sure things look as they should. To that end, our current sound designer mixes for major motion pictures, and it's from his sound library that the majority of our SFX comes. I consider RO2 to be the benchmark is suppression and combat simulation post-processing, so we're using that as our reference. Squad does a fantastic job also, though obviously RO2 is of the era.

This is a boring little scene test to make sure the rural areas feel right. The wall is WIP - we will have damaged elements to them. A lot of the time there were weird pairings of Fallschirmjager (our model seen here for scale as I compose the scene) with Panzer Lehr elements. The majority of the Panzer Lehr armour was kept hidden in buildings, ruins and under tree cover to protect them from incessant allied air attack (our little Hanomag can be seen in the barn).

aiA0pr9.jpg

Beautiful. Normandy lives for another battle.

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LugNut   
20 hours ago, +++++ said:

Our game basically takes RO2 gun mechanics and feel, PR level operational strategy (ie. supply trucks and constructed spawns) and merges it with a meta game most similar to Company of Heroes.

Can you comment and expand on the CoH style portion of your gameplay? There's a commander role with a battlefield overview? Bots? 

I'm so looking forward to this....... 

Edited by LugNut

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14 minutes ago, LugNut said:

Can you comment and expand on the CoH style portion of your gameplay? There's a commander role with a battlefield overview? Bots? 

I'm so looking forward to this....... 

My guess, you capture & hold points to gain resources, is the CoH portion. Certain points allowing ammo, fuel etc. Owning points and gathering the resources also allowing you to spawn/construct equipment perhaps.

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+++++   
53 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

My guess, you capture & hold points to gain resources, is the CoH portion. Certain points allowing ammo, fuel etc. Owning points and gathering the resources also allowing you to spawn/construct equipment perhaps.

I don't want to elaborate too much as I'm sure things will change on large scale testing (50 vs 50 always highlights issues in game design), but essentially it's less about "being in the cap" and more about consistently pushing forward through territories (as you will essentially be in a capture point no matter where you are on the map). By decentralising the cap, we've already found that the gameplay becomes less about "be in X building so you're in cap" and becomes more about "what is the best location to defend or attack the enemy in this area?" We feel that it allows for more emergent and realistic decision making in game. Men fought and died for the church not because it was arbitrarily valuable, but because it offered soldiers a sweeping view of the landscape and knowledge of their surroundings. That is a difference with WW2 vs the modern combat in Squad. In modern warfare, there is often no distinguishable front line, whereas WW2 was entirely about pushing the enemy back. Obviously, we won't be allowing players to back-cap. You can only cap adjacent territories by majority.

Tied to this system, our ticketing is driven by player successes on the battlefield, with each role, vehicle and function of the Commander requiring "Manpower" to perform. 

If a Panther tank is knocked out but not destroyed, would it be worthwhile to go and secure it so that it could be repaired by the logistics players? By giving things something akin to their real world value, we hope this encourages emergent gameplay. For instance, a detachment of German players may move up to secure the knocked out Panther - and suddenly - without any influence from game design - they have given themselves a short term tactical objective. Similarly, we have a building system based on supply crates (delivered via Opel Blitz or GMC trucks), but it is a different system to Squad in so much as how you can place them and what you can place. You'll be able to construct minefields of AP or AT mines, fields of barbed wire and tank traps, MG nests, concrete pill-boxes etc. Just like WW2 we want to give soldiers the real ability to deny areas or thoroughfares. By having strong emphasis on vehicle accessibility (ie rivers, dense hedgerows and forests) we've already found that a very strong meta emerges.

There is a much more complex meta-game of balancing spend with sacrifice and losses, but I'll reveal more of that after play-testing. Essentially, Platoon/Gruppe Officers (Platoon/Gruppe's being representational of player groups) will constantly have to communicate with the Commander about their needs and their plans. 

Edited by +++++

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10 minutes ago, +++++ said:

You'll be able to construct minefields of AP or AT mines.

Well I know my two roles already, mine placer and designated mine detonator (by stepping on them).

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+++++   
7 hours ago, PinguThePenguin said:

I can hide tanks? It's not unusual.

vDNZM1D.gif

Seriously though I think it's amazing, I don't think any other game has done it in this fashion?

 

We really like the scene in Band of Brothers where they are ambushed by a Tiger tank in Operation Market Garden. I've read a lot of books in order to try and nail some distinct elements of the Normandy theater. Overlord (by Max Hastings) describes time and time again how the Germans would basically position their armour in a static fashion to make the most of chokepoints and cover. They would be very well disguised and very difficult to pick out. The majority of the German vehicles in this first theater will be clad in foliage camouflage - which can be seen in nearly every historical photo of the OKW in Normandy.

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5 minutes ago, +++++ said:

We really like the scene in Band of Brothers where they are ambushed by a Tiger tank in Operation Market Garden. I've read a lot of books in order to try and nail some distinct elements of the Normandy theater. Overlord (by Max Hastings) describes time and time again how the Germans would basically position their armour in a static fashion to make the most of chokepoints and cover. They would be very well disguised and very difficult to pick out. The majority of the German vehicles in this first theater will be clad in foliage camouflage - which can be seen in nearly every historical photo of the OKW in Normandy.

Great to hear, can't wait to be patrolling through a town only to have a shell come flying out of the barn we deemed "Safe" from a distance, keep up the good work.

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7 hours ago, +++++ said:

We really like the scene in Band of Brothers where they are ambushed by a Tiger tank in Operation Market Garden. I've read a lot of books in order to try and nail some distinct elements of the Normandy theater. Overlord (by Max Hastings) describes time and time again how the Germans would basically position their armour in a static fashion to make the most of chokepoints and cover. They would be very well disguised and very difficult to pick out. The majority of the German vehicles in this first theater will be clad in foliage camouflage - which can be seen in nearly every historical photo of the OKW in Normandy.

You really need your own thread because you're derailing the negativity towards WWII games by describing and showing what could turn out to be the best ever.

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BreihzoO   

@ShaunOfCathay

 

Like some of the fellow players said before.

 

If you are tired of it, just don't play it, or even look at what is happening in that kind of game industry...

I am tired of everybody bitching people trying to build something, good or bad, new or old.

 

People are bitching CoD, Battlefield, FIFA, Assassin's Creed ect...... Those games are still selling, doesn't matter if it's good or not, some people are looking for those.

I personally are not into any of those, however, because those big companies are doing it, it give strength and tools to the smaller guys like us to try by ourself and succeed or fail.

What is the point of having UE 4 for free, Unity ect.. if it is not to mess around with thing we like in it ?? Tell me !

Some people like WWII like I do, and always feel like something was missing in already made game, and see potential in porting squad to it.

If it wasn't for Battlefield 1942 and Battlefield 2, you never would have player PR, or Squad or a shit ton of other game inspired by them.

 

Who on earth are you to discourage people who use their free time and personal money trying to build something up, and say that it has been done already ??????

Should we stop War movies because it got covered already and nicely like Private Ryan and BoB and every other conflicts movies, should be stop Blues and Rock music because some genius did it in the past ??? Come on man, get your head out of your ass and use it to think.

 

For Instance, Batallion 1944 have nothing to do with Squad or Red Orchestra, and still they gathered a shit ton of money to make it, so it proves that people still want more of WWII.

Lots of us are tired of Thermal weapons, and autolock, see through wall technology games like UBI is doing year after year.

 

RO 1 was amazing, and Darkest hour mod was even better ! Why not do it for Squad ? And if you try it and don't like it, then stop it, don't complain about it.

WWII conflict was global, and used an interesting arsenal in term of gameplay and game possibilities.

 

If you are tired of Zombie game, don't  create a topic on a forum to say, Guys, don't make Zombie game, I am fed up with it !

 

Same goes for cinema, music and all...

 

Try and do something original by yourself if you have the skill ( game, music, movie...)

 

I think that is enough said, didn't think I would get carried away about this thread :)

 

Cheers

Edited by BreihzoO

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9 hours ago, +++++ said:

We really like the scene in Band of Brothers where they are ambushed by a Tiger tank in Operation Market Garden. I've read a lot of books in order to try and nail some distinct elements of the Normandy theater. Overlord (by Max Hastings) describes time and time again how the Germans would basically position their armour in a static fashion to make the most of chokepoints and cover. They would be very well disguised and very difficult to pick out. The majority of the German vehicles in this first theater will be clad in foliage camouflage - which can be seen in nearly every historical photo of the OKW in Normandy.

Do you have a website up yet? I would like to favorite it so I can check back! Looks AMAZING btw... This is like the WW2 Game I've always wanted, but nobody ever wanted to make!

To the naysayers:

Oh, yeah, WW2 is bigger than ever I believe. All you naysayers that think it's overdone, you are so out of touch with reality. It's like all the people who thought Donald Trump would never make it, yet, it's looking like he will definitely be the republican nominee, and very good possibility of being the next US president.

 

Honestly, here's a list of game/franchises to compare:

WW2: 17 Games

Battlefield 1942, Red Orchestra 1/2, Heroes & Generals, Sniper Elite 1/2/3, Brothers in Arms RtH30/EiB/HH, Call of Duty 1/2/3, Medal of Honor AA/PC/AB, Wolfenstein: the new order

Modern/Future: 38GAMES!!!!

Battlefield 2/2142/BadCompany/BadCompany2/3/4, Call of Duty 4MW/MW2/MW3/BO/BO2/BO3/Ghosts/AW, Squad(of course), Insurgency, Ghost Recon 1/AW/AW2/FS/Phantoms/Wildlands, Rainbow Six Vegas/Vegas2/Seige, Crysis 1/2/3, ArmA 1/2/3, Counter Strike Global Offensive, Operation Flashpoint DR/RR, Far Cry 1/2/3/4

 

This is just what I came up with as AAA games off the top of my head, and HOLY SHIT, how can you say that WW2 is overdone!?! Modern/Future is more than double that of WW2. And all the WW2 Games are pretty crappy, aside from BF1942, Red Orchestra 2, and Wolfenstein...

Edited by SeanRamey

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18 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

Beautiful. Normandy lives for another battle.

Sigh... There goes my money again. All gone.

 

Saving is overrated anyway.

Edited by Blackout330

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Jimieus   

As someone who worked on FH2, I would just say to those salivating over WIP shots - don't get too excited/daunted by them - these projects all have a long way to go.

Edited by Jimieus

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On 07/03/2016 at 6:31 PM, Litoralis said:

That game is the definition of vapor-ware, I think I've had a forum account on that website since 2008 or 2009? I knew it was too good to be true, the list of features it promised would be insane to expect 5 years from now. Still, they did a good job of keeping me excited.

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+++++   
18 minutes ago, TotalEclipse said:

That game is the definition of vapor-ware, I think I've had a forum account on that website since 2008 or 2009? I knew it was too good to be true, the list of features it promised would be insane to expect 5 years from now. Still, they did a good job of keeping me excited.

For me it's the same with Festung Europa and about 100 other games. They change engines more than they release updates. That said Jimieus is right. I was very reticent to share any WIPs as we haven't announced yet. That said, we'll be announcing in the next week or so. There is still a long way to go before every one of the aforementioned features is in and working.

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Idartd   

Will you make an announcement thread here aswell? Will you do a kickstarter or are you financed already?

Edited by Idartd

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+++++   
8 hours ago, Idartd said:

Will you make an announcement thread here aswell? Will you do a kickstarter or are you financed already?

We'll announce the game via website and some media here and then move towards a Kickstarter before following up with a Steam Greenlight. 

At present the game is unfinanced. We're keeping our vision limited to a single map and the infantry portion of the gameplay initially in order to keep things within a manageable sphere. I have had some real financial interest but am reticent to take on capital or more team members while we're sorting through the initial contracts and company structure. 

A large part of making these indie projects work is making sure all the legal structures are in place before anything really kicks off in a meaningful way.

Once that's established we'll be looking at hiring another 10 or so team members (namely programmers, an animator, character artist, prop artist and sound designer) to take the game to full completion.

Edited by +++++

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21 hours ago, BreihzoO said:

@ShaunOfCathay

 

Like some of the fellow players said before.

 

If you are tired of it, just don't play it, or even look at what is happening in that kind of game industry...

I am tired of everybody bitching people trying to build something, good or bad, new or old.

 

People are bitching CoD, Battlefield, FIFA, Assassin's Creed ect...... Those games are still selling, doesn't matter if it's good or not, some people are looking for those.

I personally are not into any of those, however, because those big companies are doing it, it give strength and tools to the smaller guys like us to try by ourself and succeed or fail.

What is the point of having UE 4 for free, Unity ect.. if it is not to mess around with thing we like in it ?? Tell me !

Some people like WWII like I do, and always feel like something was missing in already made game, and see potential in porting squad to it.

If it wasn't for Battlefield 1942 and Battlefield 2, you never would have player PR, or Squad or a shit ton of other game inspired by them.

 

Who on earth are you to discourage people who use their free time and personal money trying to build something up, and say that it has been done already ??????

Should we stop War movies because it got covered already and nicely like Private Ryan and BoB and every other conflicts movies, should be stop Blues and Rock music because some genius did it in the past ??? Come on man, get your head out of your ass and use it to think.

 

For Instance, Batallion 1944 have nothing to do with Squad or Red Orchestra, and still they gathered a shit ton of money to make it, so it proves that people still want more of WWII.

Lots of us are tired of Thermal weapons, and autolock, see through wall technology games like UBI is doing year after year.

 

RO 1 was amazing, and Darkest hour mod was even better ! Why not do it for Squad ? And if you try it and don't like it, then stop it, don't complain about it.

WWII conflict was global, and used an interesting arsenal in term of gameplay and game possibilities.

 

If you are tired of Zombie game, don't  create a topic on a forum to say, Guys, don't make Zombie game, I am fed up with it !

 

Same goes for cinema, music and all...

 

Try and do something original by yourself if you have the skill ( game, music, movie...)

 

I think that is enough said, didn't think I would get carried away about this thread :)

 

Cheers

 

You're making me sound like I'm out to prevent people from making World War 2 games, I'm not, I'm 1. stressing the fact that World War 2 did not just consist of the Western and Eastern Fronts and that 2. they are overdone and that 3. settings outside Europe are pretty much never explored by video games.

Who on Earth am I to give my opinions on a topic? Who on Earth are you to question my right to give opinions? Oh and by the way, thanks for ignoring the half a dozen or so people who did agree with me on why quote unquote world war two is overdone (because, again, we so commonly think WW2 is just European theatre).

I get it, you're tired of AAA games, but then again you are here on the Squad forums, a game far far from that sort of mediocrity, so I don't know why you need to bring AAA games up at all, or what you mean by it, because thermals and autolock (Anti Air missiles and what not) are probably going to be in the game...

No. 

Tried before, maybe I'll try again.

Thats the point of discussion, to make you think and discuss, theres no need to be sorry for it.

 


 

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21 hours ago, SeanRamey said:

Do you have a website up yet? I would like to favorite it so I can check back! Looks AMAZING btw... This is like the WW2 Game I've always wanted, but nobody ever wanted to make!

To the naysayers:

Oh, yeah, WW2 is bigger than ever I believe. All you naysayers that think it's overdone, you are so out of touch with reality. It's like all the people who thought Donald Trump would never make it, yet, it's looking like he will definitely be the republican nominee, and very good possibility of being the next US president.

 

Honestly, here's a list of game/franchises to compare:

WW2: 17 Games

Battlefield 1942, Red Orchestra 1/2, Heroes & Generals, Sniper Elite 1/2/3, Brothers in Arms RtH30/EiB/HH, Call of Duty 1/2/3, Medal of Honor AA/PC/AB, Wolfenstein: the new order

Modern/Future: 38GAMES!!!!

Battlefield 2/2142/BadCompany/BadCompany2/3/4, Call of Duty 4MW/MW2/MW3/BO/BO2/BO3/Ghosts/AW, Squad(of course), Insurgency, Ghost Recon 1/AW/AW2/FS/Phantoms/Wildlands, Rainbow Six Vegas/Vegas2/Seige, Crysis 1/2/3, ArmA 1/2/3, Counter Strike Global Offensive, Operation Flashpoint DR/RR, Far Cry 1/2/3/4

 

This is just what I came up with as AAA games off the top of my head, and HOLY SHIT, how can you say that WW2 is overdone!?! Modern/Future is more than double that of WW2. And all the WW2 Games are pretty crappy, aside from BF1942, Red Orchestra 2, and Wolfenstein...


Um, okay. 

Well, yeah of course if you combine two fps settings its probably going to be larger than anyone setting...

HOLY SHIT, I'm not saying World War Two is overdone, I'm saying the European theatre is overdone. And again, if you combine modern and future settings its probably a given that the games are going to outnumber "world war two". And, okay thats like your opinion, which is okay, you can have opinions, but BF1942 was not actually that great compared to later Battlefields, it really only succeeded the way it did because of its then-pretty radical new playstyle and forumla, not because it was WW2. RO2, sure love, its great, I agree. Didn't really even include Wolfenstein as its more alt history than WW2, but sure its pretty great, I agree. But good on you for not actually mentioning Call of Duty, which as much as disdain the current games suck, it is the one game/franchise that actually defined its (initial) success, playstyle, and mechanics on the "WW2" setting; it crafted its narrative set pieces and vocal NPCs around the story of soldiers in that war and perfected it in Call of Duty 2 of which you apparently call crappy. Not to mention Heroes & Generals which is actually pretty fantastic and is regularly updated by a team of dedicated developers, or Brothers in Arms, or Sniper Elite. 

But what do I know? I'm just a naysayer who maintains reservations for more fps set in "WW2" 

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