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Russianbiskets

Gut Check & Impressions.

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Alright, I'll start off by saying this, I know this is Pre-Alpha. There is much work to be done, and there is a long road ahead for the development of this project.

 

Cool! Now that that is done I can say this, I have never had pre-alpha footage impress me this much. Kudos so far on some things like proof of concept, animations, and model quality.

That being said, there were some things that leave me asking questions. Based on the current documentation that I can find (At this stage) I can deduce that the main combatives in this AO (Area of Operations) will be insurgents, and a division of the United States Army. The question to be answered are "Who are these guys".

 

I am not claiming to have been in the military, I have never served but I do work with retired and active duty soldiers in the Special Operations community, as well as your regular Joe's on the ground. Having researched, built, bought, and volunteered to help train some of these individuals I have gained a very solid grasp on the types of equipment that these men and women are using when going into combat. That being said the team needs to look at what sort of unit they are trying to portray. As it is currently seen in the pre-alpha footage that has been release there are some big inconsistencies which can lead to what I call "Generic FPS Syndrome". This is when things are added to the game to make it seem cool, but make no tactical sense, or are incorrect portrayals of what is being used. 

 

For this post, I will be solely focusing on the United States Army side, and only be talking about personal combat equipment. 

 

Identity:

 

So based on what I have seen there are two ways this can go. Some of the equipment and such being used leads me to believe that the character models are based off the Army CAG (Combat Applications Group) or Delta Force. On the flip side, some other gear leads me to believe they are just your standard 11B's on the ground. This is due to what I call "Kit Bashing" or when items are added to someones personal kit that wouldn't be realistically be available to them.

The Riflemen models that are currently in the game use the Crye Precision Airframe helmet, and use some un-orthodox pouch layouts(such as back plate inverted mag pouches). This equipment is more what you would see out of Special operations community members. On the flip side, the models mostly use the BAE Systems IOTV which is in current use by grunts in the Army. This coupled with the fact that the models are using standard ACU (Army Combat Uniform) cut BDU's in OCP camo, lead me to believe that the characters are more of the hammer side, rather than the scalpel.

 

Now, to prevent kit bashing, and to maintain a high level of authenticity (not realism), one of three outcomes must happen.

 

Option 1: Change the headgear of the soldiers. 

                 This one is a pretty easy one to explain. Regular grunts don't have access to the same kit that the SOF community does. Changing the helmet to the MICH 2000 would make the headgear option of the standard infantry accurate to what is being used today in the field. This one simple modification has turned this Kit bash into an accurate kit for the Army Grunt.

 

Option 2: Ranger Up! 

                 Next option I would like to pitch is the changing of the model to resemble that more of the United States Army Ranger. Traditionally the rangers have a little bit more free range of kit that they can carry into the field. This allows for good class based models in the game, while fitting the whole middle ground between BF/COD-ARMA. Using equipment like the MICH 2002 (See Above) and armor carries like the EPC (Eagle Industries Plate Carrier) allow for a more lightweight platform, as well as being a good way to have a modular mission kit. For Example, here are some various kits being used by Rangers out in the field.

 

Rangers on Patrol

Ranger on Flightline

Ranger Automatic Rifleman

 

I could keep going, but my point is every ranger kit is different.

Sauce 

 

Option 3: #CAG SWAG

                 The final set I will introduce is the CAG. These guys use top of the like it. Airframes, the CPC (Crye Precision Chasis) and boatloads of high end gear. If they can dream it, they can get it. Now, these guys are elusive, pictures don't surface too often but they are out there. What I have here are some pictures are of milsim impressionists that are doing CAG kits. Based on my sources the kits featured are 95% or more accurate.

 

CAG SWAG 1

CAG SWAG 2

CAG SWAG 3

CAG SWAG 4

 

Closing Thoughts:

Well, I hope we all learned something today. I'll end this thread with this closing statement. I favor option 2. The reason being is that the Rangers have been around the globe, and have many different styles of kit (Which allows a bit of freedom coming up with character models) and also supports the idea of smaller SQUAD based engagements. Smaller teams of more highly skilled troops would fit the idea of the game perfectly. 

 

Based on the current model, if the devs decided to go with the standard 11B infantry style and change the helmets around, that would be another idea. The current models (aside from the helmets) are great and could lend more to a big army setup if the devs decide to have larger scale engagements.  That being said, I support the idea of using the Rangers as the basis of the models.

 

 

Problem Solved, Problem Stayin' Solved

#RangersLeadTheWay

 

 

-Biskets

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100% on-target.

 

We made similar observations in the showcase thread of the character models. I also agree with representing Batt. boys, they are the premier light infantry.

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I did notice that looking at that thread. I'll probably link this thread somewhere in that one as well. Either way as long as they are going the same round and doing it uniformly I'd be cool with either Rangers or Grunts, though yes, Rangers need some love.

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Models will be made more accurate over time, for now we are just happy to have such high quality base models to work with.

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The grunt helmet you're referring to is not the Mich 2002, but the Mich 2000. The sides of Mich 2002 are slightly cut and it's mainly used by special forces.

 

Also, CAG is sooo mainstream.. MarSOC (Marines) or ODA (Army) is the way to go!  :D

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Yeah feel free to ask us any questions in addition we own or can get our hands on most items and get you nice pictures of it to base models off of. All we ask is that the kits are accurate and the Crye is represented ;). I really loved the attention to detail in PR especially IDF side. Can't wait to see more of the game model WIP would be appreciated even if it is pre-alpha its good to get constructive criticism and be on the right track from the start.

 

 

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The helmet you're referring to is not the Mich 2002, but the Mich 2000. The sides of Mich 2002 are slightly cut and it's mainly used by special forces.

Yeah noticed that  :P In addition: The first CAG pic is actually thought to be Rangers, the second one is from a S&S Precision commercial (I think it was that company) and are not all thought to be CAG, third is just an airsofter. In his defense it is hard to find newer pictures of CAG.

**********

 

A good reference to go off is these impressionists from Norway, I know a few of them personally and their kits are very very accurate :) https://www.facebook.com/Hestehovkompaniet

For instance:

Posted Image

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Well, as I said above, I don't think I've ever had Pre-alpha impress me this much. This thread is to be taken as a suggestion and a discussion about kit. I have faith that you guys will take some of these suggestions to make the game as authentic as possible.

 

 

carmikaze,  Thank you for correcting my error and original post has been edited to correct the error.

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I have friends that own about 90% of everything I have talked about. Actual reference photos would not be hard for me to get at all. I own Crye Pants, an Airframe, and LBT Gear. I like the cut of the 6094 and when I go out and play airsoft with friends my 2012 Combat Control kit goes well with everything else.Root post edited to reflect new information.

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