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Ramjali

Commo rose?

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I was looking back at some of the PR mod videos and people were havin a giggle with the British command voices.

 

Then I realized, I don't think I've seen the commo rose in squad videos yet.

 

Am I blind or it is going to be implemented soon?

 

Video in question: https://youtu.be/rvPEG2JmVts?t=5m

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oh god the british forces accents were hilarious, sound like they are all from the country

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I too hope there will in fact be some sort of 'commo rose' or pie menu in Squad for those of us that either can't, won't or don't want to use VOIP for a litany of reasons. The are many Gamers, serious and casual, that will not use VOIP. Unfortunately some newer to tactical realism gaming  assume that someone that doesn't use VOIP is not a 'team player' -- which in many cases couldn't be further from the truth. For many, VOIP is simply not an option, from 'waking the baby', disturbing room mates and neighbors; not having system head-room, or Internet connection with the band-width to support VOIP  can using VOIP impractical or even impossible.

 

Then there's the quality of communication issue were many simply don't want to: listen to obnoxious histrionics, tantrums, racism, or don't want their kids exposed to this sort of thing -- and so much other ridiculous VOIP behaviors that simply can not be avoided, add nothing to, or even take away from the fun and immersion of the game, military professionalism, and clarity of communication.
 
Granted VOIP can be fun, and even a great tool for effective game communication, but this is more often the case in VOIP channels where people know each other -- and less so in game integrated public VOIP, in 'pub' games. The more popular and successful the game is (generally speaking) the worse the behavior in the VOIP channel.
 
Many Players want a more immersive experience with more effective, efficient, high fidenitly to realism and results oriented communication -- and various implementations of the 'Radio Menu' have served serious Game's well for nearly two decades and continue to do so in some of the best 'AAA' games.
 
Commo_Rose_BF3.png
 
The Battlefield 'Commo Rose' is considered by many to be the poster child for for good and easy to use Radio Menu systems, one key can float over 24 commands and its initial absence from Battlefield 3 lead to one of the loudest and longest Fan reactions EA experienced including  a threads so long it crashed and corrupted EA's forums, as well as a historic volume of snail mail the company had never seen before...
 
menu_2.png
 
Even most of arcade and action realism shooters in the P4F/P4C venue and tactical realism market in general recognize the value added and veracity of low-drag, efficient communications and incorporate some variation of a pie or simple radio menu.
 
ghost_recon.png
 
But most telling is the game that many regard as defining the 'Tactical Realism' genre: Ghost Recon -- it even offered a configurable text message bind system that remains a high water mark of flexible design...
 
Any of these from the simple text message bind system, to the more elaborate systems where Users can pre-record custom radio messages in their native language and bind (in essence giving the game a built in user customization localization and translator) would be preferable to the alternative where  VOIP is the only option that many will simply not use...

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I too hope there will in fact be some sort of 'commo rose' or pie menu in Squad for those of us that either can't, won't or don't want to use VOIP for a litany of reasons. The are many Gamers, serious and casual, that will not use VOIP. Unfortunately some newer to tactical realism gaming assume that someone that doesn't use VOIP is not a 'team player' -- which in many cases couldn't be further from the truth. For many, VOIP is simply not an option, from 'waking the baby', disturbing room mates and neighbors; not having system head-room, or Internet connection with the band-width to support VOIP can using VOIP impractical or even impossible.

Then there's the quality of communication issue were many simply don't want to: listen to obnoxious histrionics, tantrums, racism, or don't want their kids exposed to this sort of thing -- and so much other ridiculous VOIP behaviors that simply can not be avoided, add nothing to, or even take away from the fun and immersion of the game, military professionalism, and clarity of communication.

Granted VOIP can be fun, and even a great tool for effective game communication, but this is more often the case in VOIP channels where people know each other -- and less so in game integrated public VOIP, in 'pub' games. The more popular and successful the game is (generally speaking) the worse the behavior in the VOIP channel.

Many Players want a more immersive experience with more effective, efficient, high fidenitly to realism and results oriented communication -- and various implementations of the 'Radio Menu' have served serious Game's well for nearly two decades and continue to do so in some of the best 'AAA' games.

Commo_Rose_BF3.png

The Battlefield 'Commo Rose' is considered by many to be the poster child for for good and easy to use Radio Menu systems, one key can float over 24 commands and its initial absence from Battlefield 3 lead to one of the loudest and longest Fan reactions EA experienced including a threads so long it crashed and corrupted EA's forums, as well as a historic volume of snail mail the company had never seen before...

menu_2.png

Even most of arcade and action realism shooters in the P4F/P4C venue and tactical realism market in general recognize the value added and veracity of low-drag, efficient communications and incorporate some variation of a pie or simple radio menu.

ghost_recon.png

But most telling is the game that many regard as defining the 'Tactical Realism' genre: Ghost Recon -- it even offered a configurable text message bind system that remains a high water mark of flexible design...

Any of these from the simple text message bind system, to the more elaborate systems where Users can pre-record custom radio messages in their native language and bind (in essence giving the game a built in user customization localization and translator) would be preferable to the alternative where VOIP is the only option that many will simply not use...

You make valid points about VOIP but I have to disagree that comma rose is a substitute. It enhanced VoIP communication but it's far some a substitute. You can get on as a riflemen without VoIP but no way as a squad leader or medic.

I do agree that people are immature and vulgar. That's my biggest complaint about VOIP. Im surprised that there are no "family friendly" PR servers out there with admins who are enforcing the rules. Still, with all its annoyances, it's far more effective than typing things out

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While I might agree that many current dumbed down 'Commo Rose' implementations of what used to be called 'Radio Menu Systems' or just 'Radio & Voice Menus' are weak; if you're old enough to have played more serious tactical realism games and mods you might have a different opinion.

I'd suggest that a good Radio Menu System can not only be a good substitute for VOIP, it can be better and has advantages that even a perfectly implemented VOIP with full time paid Nanny baby sitting can't surpass.

Real military radio discipline is exactly that: communicating only essential information, in the minimum of words and bandwidth, for maximum clarity; few gamers are so disciplined even with the best of intentions, and one person's idea of 'essential information', or even 'fun conversation' is someone else's verbal Goatse picture.

Better implementations of Radio Menu Systems offer hierarchal, context sensitive organization of essential command and communications that few players will make as clear over VOIP that include:

· accurate position reporting
· situation
· reconnaissance reporting (enemy position, troop strength, direction and speed)
· requests for support (reinforcement, material, etc.)
· orders

Typically achieved in context sensitive nested menus (pie or linear), these can in many games and mods that implement them be user modified and even edited for commands most used by a particular player and how he plays. What's more this is low cost and easy to implement on a UE4 game.

More to realism a good Radio Menu System will offer excellent voice acting, the consistency, clarity and brevity of correct Mil jargon, realistic and immersive radio Foley effects, and puts everyone on the same page as far as what and how a particular need, command, or situation report is communicated.

 

Another aim of many tactical realism games is 'scale' where the physical and organizational effort required to execute a particular task should not require substantially more (or less) effort then it does in the real world for a skilled operator of that task, relative to the rest of the game. Many aspects of communication require an inordinate amount of effort for even an experienced player in games over VOIP like SitRep, position reporting, and navigation can be automated through a Radio Menu System...

 

There is far more realistic, coordinated team effort in games like SWAT 4, and Ghost Recon, and many VBS and ArmA mods on servers where players are using those games radio and voice menu systems, then is ever experienced in the best of Project Reality games on VOIP, or any VOIP enabled realism game.

Even if you disagree, the bottom line is there will be a substantial number of people playing Squad that can not, or will not be on VOIP, and if there's no alternative for communication game quality and concomitant to that game play share will suffer for it.

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Radial menu is and has already been implemented for months now. It has programmer art at the moment, but we are using it for placing deployables and switching kits at an ammo crate.

 

Future iterations will include a variety of communication tools for squad members and squad leaders alike, some of which will be on the map itself.

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Please don't implement the commo-rose for voice-overs. It's really not necessary when you already have VoIP over so many channels, not to mention the commo-rose spam.

 

I strongly suggest using the commo rose for hand signals.

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While I might agree that many current dumbed down 'Commo Rose' implementations of what used to be called 'Radio Menu Systems' or just 'Radio & Voice Menus' are weak; if you're old enough to have played more serious tactical realism games and mods you might have a different opinion.

I'd suggest that a good Radio Menu System can not only be a good substitute for VOIP, it can be better and has advantages that even a perfectly implemented VOIP with full time paid Nanny baby sitting can't surpass.

Real military radio discipline is exactly that: communicating only essential information, in the minimum of words and bandwidth, for maximum clarity; few gamers are so disciplined even with the best of intentions, and one person's idea of 'essential information', or even 'fun conversation' is someone else's verbal Goatse picture.

Better implementations of Radio Menu Systems offer hierarchal, context sensitive organization of essential command and communications that few players will make as clear over VOIP that include:

· accurate position reporting

· situation

· reconnaissance reporting (enemy position, troop strength, direction and speed)

· requests for support (reinforcement, material, etc.)

· orders

Typically achieved in context sensitive nested menus (pie or linear), these can in many games and mods that implement them be user modified and even edited for commands most used by a particular player and how he plays. What's more this is low cost and easy to implement on a UE4 game.

More to realism a good Radio Menu System will offer excellent voice acting, the consistency, clarity and brevity of correct Mil jargon, realistic and immersive radio Foley effects, and puts everyone on the same page as far as what and how a particular need, command, or situation report is communicated.

 

Another aim of many tactical realism games is 'scale' where the physical and organizational effort required to execute a particular task should not require substantially more (or less) effort then it does in the real world for a skilled operator of that task, relative to the rest of the game. Many aspects of communication require an inordinate amount of effort for even an experienced player in games over VOIP like SitRep, position reporting, and navigation can be automated through a Radio Menu System...

 

There is far more realistic, coordinated team effort in games like SWAT 4, and Ghost Recon, and many VBS and ArmA mods on servers where players are using those games radio and voice menu systems, then is ever experienced in the best of Project Reality games on VOIP, or any VOIP enabled realism game.

Even if you disagree, the bottom line is there will be a substantial number of people playing Squad that can not, or will not be on VOIP, and if there's no alternative for communication game quality and concomitant to that game play share will suffer for it.

I can't agree more, thank you for putting it to words. Commorose could be good as action menu, but is like pianist without fingers in fluent communication substitute, even more so if it is mouse driven.

 

Also there should be option to mute (Voip & text) every player invidually, if server happen to have a troll playing.

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Please don't implement the commo-rose for voice-overs. It's really not necessary when you already have VoIP over so many channels, not to mention the commo-rose spam.

 

I strongly suggest using the commo rose for hand signals.

 

Even in games like ArmA with its at times extremely slow paced gameplay, i've never seen anyone seriously use hand signals. Ever.

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Even in games like ArmA with its at times extremely slow paced gameplay, i've never seen anyone seriously use hand signals. Ever.

 

My initial thought to this would be that if hand and arm signals were ever animated, it would be in conjunction with commo rose call-outs, something that would automatically animate when issuing a command.

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My initial thought to this would be that if hand and arm signals were ever animated, it would be in conjunction with commo rose call-outs, something that would automatically animate when issuing a command.

thatd be a neat detail.

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Why would you need to say "Affirmative" through the commo rose, when you are already expected to play with a mic?

 

Furthermore, hand signals are for when you are out of earshot or don't want to be heard by enemies in the area.

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Cool Beans! Great to see this is already getting Developer attention! Offworld Industries has some really great voice Actors, and who ever is doing the sound design is quite good (complement from a fellow Sound Designer and Foley Artist) -- I hope all of you get a thorough workout and flesh this out to what it could be!

 

It would be a pretty simple affair to embed nav coordinates in your maps and script interface so in any SitRep or position report a player will automatically report the position he's in and of anything he's spotting.  It would also not be difficult to add  script that would give a tag for count, general direction and speed of anything spotted.

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Why would you need to say "Affirmative" through the commo rose, when you are already expected to play with a mic?

 

Per the original topic post: many will not want to or be able to use VOIP.  As well a Command/Voice/Radio System doesn't have to use pie menus, or menus at all, it can be a simple bind system, linear menus, nested pie menus, tree menus -- there are many implementations that achieve the same thing.

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With all due respect, the amount of people I know who play through text, whether they manage or not, can be counted on one hand. Most of the time it's because they're on the phone and they send BRB, or AFK.

 

I don't know anyone who plays solely, or even occasionally, through the commo-rose. No-one really puts up with it in the community. The players themselves don't even use the commo-rose, only for ammo and medic, and it's because that's the way everyone thinks it should be done. As much as I admit that using the commo-rose to be able to locate a nearby medic has it's use, the rest is almost redundant and mostly annoying.

 

Most games that used prefab voice-overs/text messages were designed for the era where most people didn't use mics, but that's very rare nowadays.

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Why would you need to say "Affirmative" through the commo rose, when you are already expected to play with a mic?

Furthermore, hand signals are for when you are out of earshot or don't want to be heard by enemies in the area.

it has yet to even be established that enemies will hear you over VOIP.

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If the hand gesture was accompanied by an audible voice-over, your stealth goes out the window.

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If the hand gesture was accompanied by an audible voice-over, your stealth goes out the window.

thats assuming the other team can hear the voice-over.

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With all due respect, the amount of people I know who play through text, whether they manage or not, can be counted on one hand. Most of the time it's because they're on the phone and they send BRB, or AFK.

 

I don't know anyone who plays solely, or even occasionally, through the commo-rose. No-one really puts up with it in the community. The players themselves don't even use the commo-rose, only for ammo and medic, and it's because that's the way everyone thinks it should be done. As much as I admit that using the commo-rose to be able to locate a nearby medic has it's use, the rest is almost redundant and mostly annoying.

 

Most games that used prefab voice-overs/text messages were designed for the era where most people didn't use mics, but that's very rare nowadays.

 

All due respect? How long have you been gaming? Do you honestly believe that your subjective experience is an arbiter of statistical fact, that the people you're able to count, are representative of the number of people that don't or won't use VOIP? That you keep referring to a 'commo rose' strongly suggests you don't even have much tactical realism game and mod exposure even with respect to recent issue games. Are you perhaps referring exclusively to the 'commo rose' and it's very limited implementation in Project Reality; an implementation that many tactical gamers would consider extremely limited or even worst case? 

 

Marginalizing posts like yours, where even if your premise were correct; comes at the expense of game and communication quality for a substantial number of people even if your absurd premise were accepted and we extrapolate the number of people you're able to count (on one hand) as a percentage of play time and play share.  Should you be indulged for your pet wish and personal preferences and all work on an RMS be scrapped? Is it not possible your chirping it up so much on VOIP your not really paying attention to players that don't have time for you or the conversation in VOIP that has nothing to do with the game, and is more of a social media venu and don't use it on that account? 

 

If you sincerely care about this game, its play share, and sustainability -- you'd do everyone a good turn to consider a larger context then your own pet wishes and how you personally like to play, and that not everyone is going to join a server to indulge you, and you'd likely benefit personally by reading the thread again, more carefully and in entire.

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"Commo-rose" is a reference point.

 

 

I trust you understand that Squad is about close-knit teamwork, not a random gathering of a few of the thousands of players where you do what ever you want. The 90% (the last 10% haven't acquired a mic yet) will use and require use of a mic for Squad.

 

 

Dialogue Menu options such as rearming, cover me, enemy spotted, attack, defend, grenade, smoke, busy, hungry, tired, afk, etc, I've almost never seen used by players in PR. I'd say that beyond spam they're only really used properly about 10% of the time. Even kids who play recognize the necessity for mic use.

 

A mic should be in the list of recommended system requirements for this game.

 

On the other hand, I do realize that some people are not able to use/purchase mics. My greatest sympathies, but in the end, their gameplay is broken/seriously handicapped.

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Clearly the scope of this discussion, other tactical realism games outside of Project Reality like the ArmA games, Ghost Recon, SWAT 4, Hidden & Dangerous, and the epic weight of mod content they've generated that is measured in Petabytes, and player ship that PR can only aspire to -- appears not to be part and parcel of your experience.  Neither is engaging the discussion with a sincere, objective and constructive approach -- it seems far more likely it's you that is having a 'broken/seriously handicapped' experience with tactical realism in general, with a need to denigrate.

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