Jump to content
MrTuspika

Stat tracking

Bad ideea or not  

347 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think persistent stat tracking should be implemented?

    • Yes.
      150
    • No.
      197


Recommended Posts

I hate stat tracking. Because of it, we have noobs that won't risk their life to revive you, and I sure as hell am not going to risk my life to revive some dudes who won't remember it tomorrow when the consequence is that I won't get stacked to the winning team because the admin is going to look up my stats and see my K/D is lower than his. 

 

Plus, it's depressing to see the percentage times I've lost when I'm at the top of the scoreboard.

 

I find I can't play games more than 50-100 hours anymore because I get too caught up and frustrated about the stats. I don't think I'll be playing this very long if there is persistent stat tracking, which is a shame because I love PR. I just know I'll get really mad at the game if I'm keeping track of stats, and I'll get even more angry when my squad leader is going to be unwilling to lead a stack to breach a building because he doesn't want to die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this thread is ridiculous..  these guys made a 10+ year successful mod, their pre-alpha standalone has everyone on the edge of their seat dying to play. everyone has a pretty damn good idea the direction of development. if they have stated they are bringing in stat tracking, obviously they know what they are doing. im sure they have thought about this long and hard. shit they had over 10 years to think about it. instead of whinging, wait and see what they come up with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll step in here with my own 2 cents if it may put some people at ease to hear from a developer on this matter.
 
I can understand people being concerned about this, just as I might have been in the past as a PR player. In general I think people need to trust the development team to both listen and carefully consider the voice of the community, and at the same time trust our own insight into the game's development. 
 
Remember that at the end of the day every feature we add we carefully consider how it fits into our vision for the game. No matter what persistent information we consider making available to the player, if it doesn't promote having a fun and immersive experience where teamwork and communication reign supreme, we won't be adding it.
 
A few specific things when it comes to my own personal opinion on this topic (I obviously cannot speak for the whole team here):
  • Adding *any* persistent data to the game to be available to the players would ideally be slow and methodical so we can survey if something is exploited or negatively impacts people working together. If putting something in ends up promoting bad behavior instead of promoting teamwork, we can always remove it.
  • Any information will focus on the team and the squad, so players are less worried about their own personal achievements, and more focused on how they benefit their squad and their team.
  • We will focus on very simple and/or abstract statistics which are hard to exploit. At times we may even hide exactly what gets players points so they are not trying to game the system, or even completely avoid any real time or "during the round" score feedback.
  • We will do our best to ensure the system doesn't encourage people to isolate new players. We could even experiment with adding in some support for a "mentor" mode where an experienced player could indicate they would like the game to pair them up with a newer player, and they both get rewarded for sticking together.
  • We will focus on information that is universally helpful / useful. For example indications that a transport pilot is experienced and has a recent history of safe flying.
  • Where we can we will use such a system to provide warnings to server admins of players who have a consistent history of griefing / bad behavior.
  • There will be a focus on objectives and helping achieve victory instead of something like just plain kills. For example I am almost positive that we would completely avoid having a "player's total kills" stat.
  • In all likelihood we will only count play on public servers (not private events or clan matches), and play where the total # of players in the server is above a certain threshold, to avoid exploitation of the system.

Nothing regarding stats tracking is finalized / set in stone as we are very much in the design phase when it comes to stats tracking [namely please do not take the above too seriously]. With any feature like this, we focus on the objectives of the game first, and shape the specifics of the feature to meet those requirements.

 
In general I would ask people keep an open mind about this and remember that no matter what, we will keep any persistent information simple and practical, and with a focus on teamwork. The idea behind this is not to try and get players addicted to stats building, but instead to leverage some very simple persistent information to encourage things like focusing on the objective instead of purely on killing, focusing on the team/squad instead of the individual and helping other players (especially new ones).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading Developer post , there are a few things in there that probably would be beneficial  ie player griefing (anyone remember "wumwuts" in PR a few years back?) , pilot experience, but for the most part , IMO , stats are nothing more than a way to feed someones faltering ego.

 

I (and apparently many others) don't need them , don't want them and don't pay any attention to them (such as World of Tanks). I just play to the best of my ability.

 

The object of the game is to play , participate and win if you can , nothing more , nothing less. It's a TEAM oriented game...and there is no "I" in team , but there is one in "win" and "whine" (as in whine about someones stats).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather really like to see a detailed backend statistics system like this as part of the game and also available on the SQUAD website.

 

image.jpg

 

 

Then being able to share them detail statistics like what GameTracker does with its Server/Player Dynamic Signature Images.

Of Course jazz it up, put the information that's more SQUAD relevant.

 

custombanner-8294.png

 

 

I also vote for AJAX to do the Signature and Statistics UI as his stuff is so sexy! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather really like to see a detailed backend statistics system like this: 

 

image.jpg

I definitely like the idea of having accuracy statistics and a breakdown of the body area most impacted.

 

Encourages you to shoot better. Hopefully people learn that shooting better means shooting less (take it one shot at a time...) and aiming for center mass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certain stats are healthy.

 

  • Qualification for assets (noob-buster, or keeps noobs from using an asset unless permitted by SL)
  • Evaluations from teammates (teamwork, communication, effectiveness, leadership)
  • Hours/kills/deaths with with kit/asset (useful for SLs and teammates alike)
  • Team preference
  • Kit/asset preference
  • Veteran status
  • Newbie status
  • Chain of command (for premade teams/clans)
  • etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Certain stats are healthy.

 

  • Qualification for assets (noob-buster, or keeps noobs from using an asset unless permitted by SL)
  • Evaluations from teammates (teamwork, communication, effectiveness, leadership)
  • Hours/kills/deaths with with kit/asset (useful for SLs and teammates alike)
  • Team preference
  • Kit/asset preference
  • Veteran status
  • Newbie status
  • Chain of command (for premade teams/clans)
  • etc.

 

i like stats and these are really good ideas.

 

stats doesnt equal points whoring because a lot of stats arent associated with points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coming from PR which has survived some 10 years without persistent stats I'm going to go with no.

 

Regardless of whether they are 'good stats' that are supposed to show others how team orientated you are, there will be those that get distracted from the game thinking "oh I don't want to do that as X stat will be affected". It'll just become online willy waving (even if not on the same scale as BF and CoD or any other myriad of games) that imo has no place.

 

 

If you want a way to show others how skilled you are, or how proficient a team player you are, rather than having little numbers tell them, you should act like that player and get yourself a reputation.

 

Small little example, can be applied across all skillsets/kits/etc. I knew I was a good trans heli pilot in PR because I'd have infantry SLs specifically ask for me over the net to pick them up. I also knew the SLs that were good and that I could trust to have made the right decision before calling me in. Likewise when I played inf I knew which squad I wanted to be in not because the player had high numbers but of his/her reputation.

 

My thoughts on the matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I believe that stats should be used for is for seeing what kind of players you might have in your squad and so you can make the correct decisions based on the skills with a certain kit or vehicle. This should not show the amount of kills you made or deaths you have takken. It should show your proficiency with i.e. a kit or any experience you might have. for example a stat that shows how much you have time you have spend with your squad leader within 50 meters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice to have which squad was the best in that round at the end for me more than anything else,something other players/squads can try and expire to for the sake of the whole team when coming to the next round ,never look back but always forwards.

 

But that's just my take on it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mmh dont like the idea too much...this isnt counter strike or bf4...We dont actually care about how much headshot someone is able to take when its a 2 shot down game (hopefully)...as other said stats could force peoples to play in the role in which they are good and not in the role they could like...so not good idea for me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People shouldn't blow the great chance we have to see this game become a rich environment just because they're afraid of stat farming.

 

Why would we even put farm-able stats there anyway? A K/D ration has no numbers, just a value slightly above or below 1. No-one will know if you punched 20 people to death as a civilian, and frankly, no-one should. Let's not pretend to want those kind of stats available and acknowledge the stats that are beneficial.

 

A system that encourages teamwork and functionality, and also respects an efficient fighter never has to show the numbers.

 

I don't believe the community behind Squad will ever allow the game to delve into unlockeable gear, silly awards, etc., but I wouldn't mind having something to show for my war effort.

 

Total (Teamwork ÷ Minutes played) ÷ (Kills ÷ Deaths) (or something) squashed into one vague value is enough to base an opinion on someone without allowing people to really control it.

 

That newbie buster is, second to none, a necessity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People shouldn't blow the great chance we have to see this game become a rich environment just because they're afraid of stat farming.

 

Why would we even put farm-able stats there anyway? A K/D ration has no numbers, just a value slightly above or below 1. No-one will know if you punched 20 people to death as a civilian, and frankly, no-one should. Let's not pretend to want those kind of stats available and acknowledge the stats that are beneficial.

 

A system that encourages teamwork and functionality, and also respects an efficient fighter never has to show the numbers.

 

I don't believe the community behind Squad will ever allow the game delving into unlockeable gear, silly awards, etc., but I wouldn't mind having something to show for my war effort.

 

Total (Teamwork ÷ Minutes played) ÷ (Kills ÷ Deaths) (or something) squashed into one vague value is enough to base an opinion on someone without allowing people to really control it.

 

That newbie buster is, second to none, a necessity.

Basing a person on his stats will stop people from doing trans/logi. Doesn't matter if it's teamwork or k/d. If said person has been doing trans for a long time then decides to do infantry, people would see a long playtime and a low teamwork score and k/d ratio and naturally assume he's a bad player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why logi drivers/trans pilots don't get the points they deserve is a different topic. I'd assume that's workable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am seriously concerned about the stat tracking implementation. What exactly will it entail . Because if it's anything like what we see with other FPS games then people's gameplay style is going to change , and not for the better. What do you guys think ?

 

Possible scenarios as seen in games with stat tracking:

 

People camping allot;

People not using suppressive fire;

People not taking shots at exposed enemy parts unless they can get a HS;

People not wanting to go and clear buildings;

Squad stacking;

Team stacking;

 

.

.

.

I am 100% certain you have nothing to Fear . The Dev's have said ,  QUOTE  "ALL FOR ONE, ONE FOR ALL. The base unit of Squad is not the individual, but the 9-man squad. Gameplay systems honed over years of experience with the Project Reality series draw the focus away from the lone-wolf player and much more on the cooperation with other members of your squad." 

 

So they , WILL NOT , entertain any ideas that take away from that theme . ;)

Stat tracking will be in keeping with that .

 

P.S. - I don't understand the anxiety considering BF2 and PR had stat tracking http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-bf2-general-discussion/4050-stat-tracking.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m in the “no” camp, although Merlin’s post is somewhat reassuring. But I just can’t really think of any stats categories that, if people cared about them (and they will), wouldn’t have a negative effect on player behavior, attitudes, and gameplay. I have seen this happen too often in many types of games, stats tracking changes playstyles when people consider how certain actions will be reflected in the stats. The only exception I can think of is maybe objectives taken/defended, but persistently tracking that seems unnecessary and could promote the type of attitudes and player-interactions (like someone excessively chewing out another player for actions or mistakes that hurt these or similar stats) that this game definitely doesn’t need. Ultimately I think programming resources would be better used on other parts of the game.
 

I definitely like the idea of having accuracy statistics and a breakdown of the body area most impacted.

Encourages you to shoot better. Hopefully people learn that shooting better means shooting less (take it one shot at a time...) and aiming for center mass.


I disagree and think those are examples of stats that would have a negative impact. Accuracy stats would really discourage suppressive fire (which is big for immersion and a huge part of combat in reality, so it should be a big part of this game), and with a body area breakdown, players would be tempted to wait for the perfect shot for the stats, rather than taking a shot on an enemy more quickly in order to save a teammate's life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only stats I like the idea of are a system put into place where you can give other people positive 'rep' points. Like in CS:GO. You cant give people negative rep, but you can give them positive rep if you think theyre a good leader, good teammate, good teacher, etc. I think this, if implemented in a sound way, could add more depth to teamwork (on the assumption that players use it).

edit: Merlin's post is 10/10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. If people change the way they play depending on the stats tracking, then leave them out of the equation. Plus, in this style of game, a player can be extremely valuable just by covering the rear of a squad, or patrolling a supply lane, even if they don't fire a single shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know in FPS games at the moment its all about this stats stuff which for me is killing the game play in most games now a days,the last thing i want to hear in squad is someone doing something for the sake of there stats and not for the squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a personal perspective stats tracking would make Squad no different from run off the mill FPS such as BF and COD. A Military simulator is not a competition in regards to who is the better individual and what follows stats tracking is leader boards. What comes with leader boards is the competitive urge by many to top them.... while this may seem a great idea in fostering personal development it has nothing to do with team work and merely focuses on you. Attitudes towards others changes too and by using BF and COD again as an example i will explain why? In both FPS forum threads and in game chat regularly becomes toxic because a high degree of players derail topics down to nothing more than slagging matches in regards to players stats, like for example a player offering constructive feedback only to be called out on factors such as his/her KPM or K/D or even SPM or accuracy. Now the majority of decent and mature players will understand that although your personal prowess is an advantage it does not necessarily reflect team play and individuals that are consumed in their own performance and ego often are terrible team players because they have no patience to teach or work with players of lesser skill. 

 

Right now Squad gives you a hint towards your own input briefly at the end of the round but all that really matters is your team winning. Since the personal pressure of a reputation to uphold is absent and the community doesn't currently frown upon players of lesser skill and actively encourages and mentors others i have found the Squad community a much welcoming group to be part of. We don't have that many players full of themselves putting everyone else down because they have no record of achievement to back it up and instead the better players of Squad are out there pulling their Squads and teams together and sharing their skills and experience and in my eyes that's what a military sim is.

 

In real life in the forces were only as good as our weakest member and we leave no one behind, we don't flaunt our skill or experience but invest it towards developing our squad members new and old to make us a more effective team and when we record tally's it's only for a bit of light hearted competition and never used to intimidate others. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about many civilians and gamers in particular the keyboard warriors, let's keep squad the way it is unique in it's own right and limit the influx of egotistical players and trolls who put themselves before everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×