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The big Tank and Apc thread

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I could not find a thread for tankers, so hope you don't mind making one here.

 

Squad development looks great..   and going so fast atm! 

 

Being a big tank nut I would like to suggest to please add proper tanks and apc's.

 

So what is in my opinion proper tank implementation.

 

There are only three titles that did it right, so use them as an example! (Steel Beasts Pro, RO2, T34 vs Tiger)

 

I'm a Steel Beasts Pro player and that should basically be the aim for proper tank implementation. no need to make it a sim like DCS

-make it possible to control a tank solo AND multicrewable. (if that is even a word) and for those screaming that you should not be able to solo a tank..

 

It's not like the tanks in battlefield..  where you are basically a sniper on tracks driving around the battle field.

 

Soloing a tank gives you a disadvantage as you have to move from one position to the other..  so a multi head crew is always more effective. (if they communicate at all)

I suggest looking at how they implemented the controls in RO2..  because that is basicly how I would implement a tank.

 

Have at least the turret interiour, as this is the place you will spend most if your time (the office) , popping your head in and out of the cupola .. when turned out able to use bino's (but vulnarable to snipers etc).

And when turned in and looking through periscope you have very limited view.

Don't do instant switching from seat to seat..  just do it like in RO2..  there's a delay (or animation when moving from commander to gunner seat) so you are not able to just use a tank as a sniper and spam the battlefield.

 

The problem when you force people to use multiple people in a tank is that you always have to get people online you play with.

Believe me..  controlling a tank with people who do not communicate is a nightmare.

 

And a tank is a large vulnerable object with all those infantry with rpg's.

 

I rather see 2 tanks with interior and 2 apc's then 20 without.

 

I think it would be epic to finally have a great tactical framework like squad that is the first one ever to have proper tanks like Steel Beasts and/or RO2.

Both are great..  but steelbeast is mainly about vehicles, and in RO2 the maps aren't that great for tankers.

 

I know implementing tanks this way is a shitload of work..   but please..  get someone on the team that knows the few good tank games and makes it his mission to get it right in squad.

Yes, I see bumps ahead..  how on earth can you get interiors for the newer models for example.  

 

And if you need help I know my way around with 3D modeling..  just let me know :)

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Welcome on the forum mate!

These questions was mentioned before. Check these topics:
http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/900-vehicle-interior/?hl=interior
http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/795-tank-need-at-least-4-man-to-operate/?hl=interior#entry14854
http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/111-vehicles-tank-simulation/?hl=interior#entry1403

In my opinion they will copy solution from previous game Project Reality where there wasn't any ability to play alone in Tank, CAS etc.
About interiors -there is for now much more importantly features to make, so interiors have very low priority.

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Welcome on the forum mate!

 

 

Ditto!..

 

 

 

In my opinion they will copy solution from previous game Project Reality where there wasn't any ability to play alone in Tank, CAS etc.

About interiors -there is for now much more importantly features to make so interiors have very low priority.

 

 

Yeah I hope this is implemented in Squad...Stops the wannabees hero's jumping solo onto a Tank/APC and spamming the crap of us!... :D

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This has already been mentioned in other threads

 

While this is a feature I myself would personally love to see as I'm a big RO2 fan, the matter simply comes down to the sheer amount of extra time and effort that would be required to do this which at the moment could be focused on implementing more important features, although I don't think its an impossibility further along the development process but don't hold me to that because I'm clearly not a dev.

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Maybe after full release with help from modding scene (they will likely add mod-tools in the future) we will get a fully modeled interiors and others amazing content/features.
[i'm not a Developer]

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The one peeeve I have about tanks in BF2 was fences and buildings wouldn't. be destroyed or able to run over everything....I hope Squad wil let tanks break fences and buildings and destroy stuff by making its own road...

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The one peeeve I have about tanks in BF2 was fences and buildings wouldn't. be destroyed or able to run over everything....I hope Squad wil let tanks break fences and buildings and destroy stuff by making its own road...

I'm sure that will be fixed in UE4. I've seen videos with prop destruction so I'm sure it can be done.

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I'm sure that will be fixed in UE4. I've seen videos with prop destruction so I'm sure it can be done.

 

Hmmm, on a scale of the maps that Squad will have I doubt that everything and all buildings will be destructible. Probably ''some'' dirt walls and other objects/models, but not all.

 

Further, if you want to get a good impression on how Squads Tank game play can be, and better, Check Project Reality. The models aren't that great because of the engine, there is no interior, ballistics are not super mega realistic. But it works good, and feels awesome. Teamwork between two/three guys in a tank, coordinating with each other and other tanks in their squad. The Squad leader relying on Intel from other squad leaders and the commander about locations of enemy Tanks/Apcs/Inf/Fobs/Hats/Tows. The tank squad working together with other squads to engage objectives.

 

You get the point. It just works.... And imagine this in squad. Awesome!!

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I see where you're coming from, but it'd most likely work as it does in the Project Reality Mod. And i agree with Mike, that would awesome, but i doubt it'd happen often. :(

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As an ex Abrams tanker, I really hope they go a little deeper into this area.  I'm not expecting a simulation by any means but authenticity could be attained without going sim deep.

 

Easy examples are:

 

The TC hatch:  simply buttoned or unbuttoned, no real need for modeled interior just turned out or looking through the vision blocks.  TC could also have access to the commanders sight, .50 cal sight or just the vision blocks.

 

The gunner should never see the barrel of the tank or any part of the tank thru his sight.  This has always bugged me about tank games.

 

The gunner should have to lase the target , at the very least, and if they wanted to go even further a dynamic lead system could be implemented.

 

Tanks should also have realistic acceleration and turning ability.  ARMA's tanks are a joke in this reguard.  They will turn 90 degrees in one second flat.  That is just ridiculous.  Real tanks have a pivot ability, but is rarely used in the field.  It's too easy to throw a track when trying to pivot on anything but concrete.  Even attempting relatively sharp turns while moving is tricky and takes some experience to do without throwing the track.

 

I would love to see combined arms maps where mechanized units are the main focus.  I've been dreaming of playing a realistic tank game where each stationed can be manned by real players.

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As an ex Abrams tanker, I really hope they go a little deeper into this area.  I'm not expecting a simulation by any means but authenticity could be attained without going sim deep.

 

Easy examples are:

 

The TC hatch:  simply buttoned or unbuttoned, no real need for modeled interior just turned out or looking through the vision blocks.  TC could also have access to the commanders sight, .50 cal sight or just the vision blocks.

 

The gunner should never see the barrel of the tank or any part of the tank thru his sight.  This has always bugged me about tank games.

 

The gunner should have to lase the target , at the very least, and if they wanted to go even further a dynamic lead system could be implemented.

 

Tanks should also have realistic acceleration and turning ability.  ARMA's tanks are a joke in this reguard.  They will turn 90 degrees in one second flat.  That is just ridiculous.  Real tanks have a pivot ability, but is rarely used in the field.  It's too easy to throw a track when trying to pivot on anything but concrete.  Even attempting relatively sharp turns while moving is tricky and takes some experience to do without throwing the track.

 

I would love to see combined arms maps where mechanized units are the main focus.  I've been dreaming of playing a realistic tank game where each stationed can be manned by real players.

Thanks for this valuable input.

 

I am not sure what the developers currently have in the way of Mechanized Veteran Advising, but please stick around and contribute. They certainly value realism, and if its a feasible implementation and augments teamwork chances are they'll do it, if it isnt already being done. Also, you might consider starting a discussion post of your own, with written and visual input on your experience and what you'd like to see. If the Devs are occupied elsewhere (things are gettin busy) at least the forum members will enjoy discussing your experience and insight.

 

Good to have you on the forums.

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As an ex Abrams tanker, I really hope they go a little deeper into this area.  I'm not expecting a simulation by any means but authenticity could be attained without going sim deep.

 

Easy examples are:

 

The TC hatch:  simply buttoned or unbuttoned, no real need for modeled interior just turned out or looking through the vision blocks.  TC could also have access to the commanders sight, .50 cal sight or just the vision blocks.

 

The gunner should never see the barrel of the tank or any part of the tank thru his sight.  This has always bugged me about tank games.

 

The gunner should have to lase the target , at the very least, and if they wanted to go even further a dynamic lead system could be implemented.

 

Tanks should also have realistic acceleration and turning ability.  ARMA's tanks are a joke in this reguard.  They will turn 90 degrees in one second flat.  That is just ridiculous.  Real tanks have a pivot ability, but is rarely used in the field.  It's too easy to throw a track when trying to pivot on anything but concrete.  Even attempting relatively sharp turns while moving is tricky and takes some experience to do without throwing the track.

 

I would love to see combined arms maps where mechanized units are the main focus.  I've been dreaming of playing a realistic tank game where each stationed can be manned by real players.

 

Please make a thread of your own and suggest all these ideas and more, this kind of input is hugely valuable. If you were willing to provide more insight directly to the devs, I might even recommend you talk to IronTaxi about becoming a military advisor for when they begin to implement armoured assets later in development.

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As an ex Abrams tanker, I really hope they go a little deeper into this area.  I'm not expecting a simulation by any means but authenticity could be attained without going sim deep.

 

Easy examples are:

 

The TC hatch:  simply buttoned or unbuttoned, no real need for modeled interior just turned out or looking through the vision blocks.  TC could also have access to the commanders sight, .50 cal sight or just the vision blocks.

 

The gunner should never see the barrel of the tank or any part of the tank thru his sight.  This has always bugged me about tank games.

 

The gunner should have to lase the target , at the very least, and if they wanted to go even further a dynamic lead system could be implemented.

 

Tanks should also have realistic acceleration and turning ability.  ARMA's tanks are a joke in this reguard.  They will turn 90 degrees in one second flat.  That is just ridiculous.  Real tanks have a pivot ability, but is rarely used in the field.  It's too easy to throw a track when trying to pivot on anything but concrete.  Even attempting relatively sharp turns while moving is tricky and takes some experience to do without throwing the track.

 

I would love to see combined arms maps where mechanized units are the main focus.  I've been dreaming of playing a realistic tank game where each stationed can be manned by real players.

 

I like you, we should be friends. ;)

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As an ex Abrams tanker, I really hope they go a little deeper into this area.  I'm not expecting a simulation by any means but authenticity could be attained without going sim deep.

 

Easy examples are:

 

The TC hatch:  simply buttoned or unbuttoned, no real need for modeled interior just turned out or looking through the vision blocks.  TC could also have access to the commanders sight, .50 cal sight or just the vision blocks.

 

The gunner should never see the barrel of the tank or any part of the tank thru his sight.  This has always bugged me about tank games.

 

The gunner should have to lase the target , at the very least, and if they wanted to go even further a dynamic lead system could be implemented.

 

Tanks should also have realistic acceleration and turning ability.  ARMA's tanks are a joke in this reguard.  They will turn 90 degrees in one second flat.  That is just ridiculous.  Real tanks have a pivot ability, but is rarely used in the field.  It's too easy to throw a track when trying to pivot on anything but concrete.  Even attempting relatively sharp turns while moving is tricky and takes some experience to do without throwing the track.

 

I would love to see combined arms maps where mechanized units are the main focus.  I've been dreaming of playing a realistic tank game where each stationed can be manned by real players.

I like where this guy's head is at. 

 

Honestly, interior of tanks just isn't needed when you measure it against the resources it would consume (unless yall get a lot more money than expected). I mean, the modelling, texturing, not to mention all the animations to make it worth it make my head spin. Think it is more important to focus on interiors of APCs for the infantry. 

 

I love the idea of a commander slot (rather than just the third HMG slot) and him being able to unbutton, use the mounted HMG, and (what I want more than anything) the ability to use their binoculars. While not necessary for some of the more modern tanks, it would be a really nice feature to have built in for older vehicles and potential historical modules. 

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yes! Im a huge advocated of removing the 3rd seat on tanks and instead make it an aditional function that the comander/driver can use . that way the comander can either spot (using the thermals and integrated visual aids most modern tanks have) or use the HMG to defend the tank, if the situation arises, but not do the 2 things at the same time.

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yes! Im a huge advocated of removing the 3rd seat on tanks and instead make it an aditional function that the comander/driver can use . that way the comander can either spot (using the thermals and integrated visual aids most modern tanks have) or use the HMG to defend the tank, if the situation arises, but not do the 2 things at the same time.

Not sure there is a reason to remove the commander slot, as both gunner and driver as essential roles, although I would continue to make it more beneficial than mandatory. 

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I prefere the tanks not to be able to be driven solo. Squad/PR is an absolute Teamplay Game and it's mechanics need to support that in order to force newbies to play the game right.

Solo Tanks would irritate newbies and they'll begin to drive around solo all the time because they don't want to talk to people. Also with solo tanks a proper Tank Squad would be pointless.

 

NoGo in my opinion.

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Not sure there is a reason to remove the commander slot, as both gunner and driver as essential roles, although I would continue to make it more beneficial than mandatory.

you are not removing the commander slot, just integrating the HMG to the already modeled comander in the vehicle. In PR you have 2 main positions, gunner/loader, and comander/driver. Since comander are mandatory for a tank to function, the HMG should be used always by the comander, so having a separated 3rd slot just for the HMG is pointless. That seat should be removed, and the function of the HMG should be given to the comander of the vehicle, IE: the driver/comander

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you are not removing the commander slot, just integrating the HMG to the already modeled comander in the vehicle. In PR you have 2 main positions, gunner/loader, and comander/driver. Since comander are mandatory for a tank to function, the HMG should be used always by the comander, so having a separated 3rd slot just for the HMG is pointless. That seat should be removed, and the function of the HMG should be given to the comander of the vehicle, IE: the driver/comander

 

Oh, I see what your are saying. Yea on the same page. I thought you were saying only two seats in the tank. 

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I like you, we should be friends. ;)

 

I'd be happy to help you guys in any way I could.  I've been really impressed from what I've seen of Squad on youtube.  I'll be backing the kickstarter with a Commanders tier so hopefully I'll be able to hop into a game

with you guys pretty soon.

 

I've got all kinds of tank stuff bouncing around inside my head and I think a balance between sim and causual is really the way to go.  I use to play Steel Beasts PRO, but trying to play online was a huge hassle and I always

felt Project Reality would probably be the same.  I've watched a ton of BlueDrakes PR videos and enjoy the realistic atmosphere a lot.

 

People call this a niche market, but it's because no one has managed to strike the proper balance between difficulty and authenticity.  You guys really do look to be on the right track with that and I have to think it would crack the market wide open.

 

Maybe, this weekend, I'll start a thread about what I'd like to see in tanks for Squad and just throw out some ideas.

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We are always open to feedback and suggestions. We will have armored vehicles, tracked and wheeled, so any input is welcomed.

 

One of my jobs on the team is to look at stuff like this, so throw it at me.

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If anyone is interested in some light reading.  Here is the wiki page for the battle of Medina Ridge which I took part in many years ago.  I was in the 1st AD / 2-70 Armor.  They say it was the largest tank battle in US history.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Medina_Ridge

 

UPDATE:

 

Wikipedia must have added the Battle of Al Busayyah in the last couple of years.  I could never find it before. This was our first combat engagement. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Al_Busayyah

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I thought we didn't. lose any tanks....to enemy in Gulf war 1.....because our tanks out gunned and had much longer ranges...

nice read...

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As an ex Abrams tanker, I really hope they go a little deeper into this area.  I'm not expecting a simulation by any means but authenticity could be attained without going sim deep.

 

Easy examples are:

 

The TC hatch:  simply buttoned or unbuttoned, no real need for modeled interior just turned out or looking through the vision blocks.  TC could also have access to the commanders sight, .50 cal sight or just the vision blocks.

 

The gunner should never see the barrel of the tank or any part of the tank thru his sight.  This has always bugged me about tank games.

 

The gunner should have to lase the target , at the very least, and if they wanted to go even further a dynamic lead system could be implemented.

 

Tanks should also have realistic acceleration and turning ability.  ARMA's tanks are a joke in this reguard.  They will turn 90 degrees in one second flat.  That is just ridiculous.  Real tanks have a pivot ability, but is rarely used in the field.  It's too easy to throw a track when trying to pivot on anything but concrete.  Even attempting relatively sharp turns while moving is tricky and takes some experience to do without throwing the track.

 

I would love to see combined arms maps where mechanized units are the main focus.  I've been dreaming of playing a realistic tank game where each stationed can be manned by real players.

Listen for this man! Great ideas!

 

 

Talking about other comments, no solo tanking, ffs.

I hate these guys that comes in these forums and cries that something is too hard to do than battlefield, so lets take it out.NO.

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