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Heskey

Community Elitism - Lowering The Tone

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Hi all,

Some of you may know me from over the last 7 years since PR 0.5 when I started playing the mod and I'll hedge my bets that a lot won't, thanks to an influx of fresh interest and new players that Squad has undoubtedly generated - It's great to see you all, as much as it's great to see some fellow clingers-on of PR still keeping this amazing genre alive and worth continued development. My thanks to the DEVs for creating this whilst not abandoning PR.

I last checked in on Squad in mid-January but with the recent appearance of a Jackfrags gameplay video on YouTube showcasing impressive progress in such a short space of time I thought I'd drop by the forums and see what's new. It lead me to see the PR 1.3 feature video, which was nice; seeing as how watching Jack's video has made me decide to take a break from my other games and boot PR back up again once I return from my weekend away (I'll see you on the battlefield)!

I'm glad to see this game going from strength to strength, but after just a short stint of browsing the forum I'm sensing an undercurrent of unpleasant elitism towards a new player base as well as the comparisons they draw and the suggestions they bring, in a similar vein to the threads when PR 1.1 was set to release and instead of embracing the inevitable influx of new players to take under our wings and show the ropes to in the same way we would have been as new players, people made noise like it was the end of days, or going to be a tactical disaster like that hilarious video from Muttrah v1 when the new helicopter mechanics were added in, all over again - there was talk of locked squads and the like. An "us and them" mentality, if you will.

I can see it festering under the surface here, too - and it's not encouraging for a game genre based first and foremost on the teamwork and trust of a large number of strangers. New players supporting the global player base should be celebrated, not shunned - do we really want to become the Wildstar community, who despite risking their beloved and relatively new MMO becoming free-to-play due to it's low player base and poor revenue performance, disdainfully refer to new players that can't devote themselves to its steep learning curve and hard-core raiding mechanics as "filthy casuals"?

Please think about the type of community we want to promote and foster in this new era of an overlooked gold mine genre every time you post.

Welcome new players with open arms, embrace them and nurture them to love this game as many of us ourselves were with PR. Treat everyone with courtesy, and by all means disagree with suggestions and promote lively and challenging dicusson and debate, but do so with respect for other people to harbour different views than your own.

Let's make this community and game exceptional.

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There was 1 thread made about newbies (which has since been locked thankfully) and this post of yours makes sound like it's going on in every topic, which it's not.  :blink:

SQUAD is open to everyone. :)

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I'm one of those people. I'm not afraid to say it out loud. And I agree on this "tone" aswell.

 

I really try my best at looking at these forums without head boiling. Everyday it's something new. Luckily I haven't really gotten my post on yet.

 

I'm of course very glad on the recognition, progress and everything with squad, no doubt. I think most PR vets, because this is actually a group whether you like it or not, think of squad as the game they all wanted PR to become. Right now it's long way to go but definitely in the right direction. But as you know, (as "vet), Project Reality isn't all about the game. A big part is the community - which too be fair is probably one reason you are writing this Heskey.

 

That's what gets my jimmies going. Looking at these forums I see, "will you have x gun", "..x faction?", "PR is dead!", "when can i play"? etc. Frankly that isn't exactly hope-giving.

 

To all of you people that wants a piece of squad's gameplay, you CAN play it! It's called Project Reality. Ever heard of it?

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Looking at these forums I see, "will you have x gun", "..x faction?", "PR is dead!", "when can i play"? etc. Frankly that isn't exactly hope-giving.

 

You have that very same thing on the PR Forums, still going after eight years - I guess that's something natural and not even related to increased attention :)

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i have recently installed PR because of squad just to get the hang of things, I feel welcomed here and i have no problem learning how to be a grunt in PR.

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I agree that we shouldn't be hostile towards new players. Personally, I am appalled how poorly the core experience of Squad was displayed in JackFrags' video. He did not introduce the game at all, he often ran off doing his own thing; now there are newcomers who think behavior like that is normal through no fault of their own. Most viewers looked at the first five minutes and immediately wrote comments about how the game is an Insurgency clone, because they did not understand the game on a deeper level, again, through no fault of their own. New players should understand the importance of teamwork before they play. Lest half the server grabs the most powerful kit they can get their hands on, and goes ramboing.

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-snip-

im going to be incredibly rude and hostile towards all new members of the community because you posted this.  But serious, it's the goddamn internet stop being so uptight on people's opinions and views on the influx.  It is annoying that new members are asking dumb questions instead of lurking around and doing their own research to answer their own question.  They shouldn't have to have their hand held.  

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It's not elitism, it's pride. We are proud to be part of such a community for so long and don't want that ruined. I wouldn't bash some new kid for not standing to attention when he sees me though!

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As someone who usually lurks and doesn't join in conversations nine times out of ten, I have to say that this topic in general is really unnecessary. Out of most other forums and communities, this one is extremely lax and everyone seems extremely assertive and unaggressive towards the other community members. I think that's the one thing to be taking pride in; having a great community, not just having a great developer

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All the guy is saying is that he has been playing PR for years and it has been know as a tactical shooter. He doesn't want the game to become too commercial and it end up like DayZ/DayZ Standalone; A tactical shooter changed to a run and gun fest. I share the same sentiment and you should embrace our opinions.

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People that play PR have to play it tactically not because that's what is expected of them but because the game is set up to play that way. Planetside 2 used to be a tactical shooter back in the early alpha days too. It was utterly amazing, but over time when the developers changed almost everything about the game and started to add the millions of guns and the pay to win aspect it just went completely casualfest.

 

Obviously you won't have to worry about that with this game at all. I wouldn't worry about it. Uneducated consumers will buy the game because it's new, realize it's not for them, bash on it and leave. The community that does enjoy it and knows what it was intended to be will still be around.

 

I mean I get where you guys are coming from but the game will take care of itself. I wouldn't worry about it

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Nice post Heskey. Totally agree with your points.

All the old pr players will hopefully apply their nurturing abilities to new members & show them the ropes.

I assumed that was one of their outstanding qualities & why newcomers were attracted previously.

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I think well over the vast majority of us have been helpful in answering questions to new forum members over the last 24 - 72 hours. One objectionable thread does not equate to metastatic elitism.

 

While I appreciate the OP as it serves as a reminder for all of us (we are human after all), I think the issue may not be elitism. Frankly, I think people are concerned about preserving the type of gameplay they expect to experience once the game is publically accessible. I think some may see YouTube content creators publishing videos about and generating interest in Squad who haven’t built their brand or community around the tactical FPS genre and find themselves concerned. Maybe concerned about what it means for the community? Maybe what it means for the game play or maybe the feeling they get logging on for the first time?

 

Above all the most important thing is that at the end of the day we all do our best to do this:

 

 

Welcome new players with open arms, embrace them and nurture them to love this game as many of us ourselves were with PR. Treat everyone with courtesy, and by all means disagree with suggestions and promote lively and challenging dicusson and debate, but do so with respect for other people to harbour different views than your own.

Let's make this community and game exceptional.

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I initially heard of Squad yesterday after watching jackfrag's video, which led me to find more videos and then to ultimately register to the forums today. I have spent the last couple of hours scouring over the website and I must say I am extremely pleased with the work that has been put into this game and the obvious passion both the development team and the community as a whole has for not only this game but for the genre of hardcore tactical shooters - which does need to be revived. I do come from a PR BF2 background along with Arma 2: Ace mod and I can't wait to get my hands on this game to have the honor to play with many of you. I need to get back to the days of ACRE and Task Force radio to get some serious military gaming going but for now Arma 2 and 3 along with some BF4 has kept me going, but THIS is what I have been waiting for, and JackFrag's has been the in-between man on this deal and I do thank him for introducing me to a game that has both relived amazing memories and has given me hope for the future of hardcore tactical shooters - while simultaneously reigniting an old flame in my heart. I am glad to be here and look forward to eventually playing with you all.  I'll end with saying that I have felt quite welcomed during my short stay here, the endless amount of information in these forums and the website as a whole is wonderful to read over. Thanks again to you all for what you're doing here...   ;)

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I'm a true believer in Free Speech (without the nastiness). We have many different members from different cultures and we got to remember that!

 

I believe we have the Team:Devs/Support/Moderators who can decide If/when a topic has gone over the top or out of hand and not members from our community...Imho!

 

It's amazing we are part of something Big!... :D

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I think well over the vast majority of us have been helpful in answering questions to new forum members over the last 24 - 72 hours. One objectionable thread does not equate to metastatic elitism.

 

While I appreciate the OP as it serves as a reminder for all of us (we are human after all), I think the issue may not be elitism. Frankly, I think people are concerned about preserving the type of gameplay they expect to experience once the game is publically accessible. I think some may see YouTube content creators publishing videos about and generating interest in Squad who haven’t built their brand or community around the tactical FPS genre and find themselves concerned. Maybe concerned about what it means for the community? Maybe what it means for the game play or maybe the feeling they get logging on for the first time?

 

Above all the most important thing is that at the end of the day we all do our best to do this:

 

I would hate that after 10 years of Project Reality, showing realism, tactics, strategy and teamwork, that now it's a standalone game the extra fans it attract, run the game into the mud. As much as you all don't agree with my opinion the entire community, even the developers would not like it neither. I comment because of my passion and love for this game. :(

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I'm just getting pissed at the huge influx of repeat threads posted by new users who don't know how to use the search function.

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Well, I really feel like these forums are starting to become better and better. PR vets kinda set the tone on these forums from the start, and it works out imo. Everyone is willing to help new people and it is great to see new comers saying that they feel welcome and love the information on these forums.

 

I don't think elitism is really a problem at the moment, at all.

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I'm just getting pissed at the huge influx of repeat threads posted by new users who don't know how to use the search function.

 

Not me Sir I'm chilled like a cucumber!... :)

 

Can't the topics be merged with the originals by our moderators!?...

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BIG +1 on this post! Please welcome new people to the community and the game and treat them with respect and patience in the same way you would like to be treated. 

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Can't the topics be merged with the originals by our moderators!?...

That would be good practice and I'm glad you suggested it.

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Since I just gave a rant in the IRC channel, I figured the point should make it across to the forums, so I'll quote myself:

 

 


20.01.40 Z-trooper  I will personally smack you silly if you guys jeopardize my future career by being hostile or unwelcoming to future potential players/customers. /rant
 
20.03.57 Z-trooper  we can all agree that new players are curious and perhaps not patient enough to read the entire forum before they ask a question. The breaking point is how you phrase your responses to those posts. And how you word your replies to the guys who asks questions about leveling up, unlocking and when we are going to make a barret sniper
 
20.04.17 Z-trooper  it is the classic "its not what you said, it is how you said it" that makes ALL the difference here
 
20.04.30 Z-trooper  be the mature community we so often praise you for being
 
20.04.42 Z-trooper  takes a big man to give someone a hand instead of telling someone off
 
Do this and you shall earn my respect and gratitude

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Not everyday you are going to spoon feed people. Yes they are curious and will post their questions. "WE" should be man enough to advise them that before you post check the forums first or the forums will be filled with spam and repetitive topics. The forward movement of this game which we so desire will be slowed down.

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The forward movement of this game which we so desire will be slowed down.

 

Because of people asking question? Yeah, right...

 

The forum could really be laid out better. If you make a new thread under 'Questions' it should give you a nice section at the top with all of this concerns (search function, info form the thread that Yrkidding made etc.). Also, mods need to start doing their job and merge existing threads ASAP.

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