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BrossParavoss

Damage system

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Yesterday me and my friend tested damage of M4A1 and AK74M.
Result was: 2 shots in torso (maybe only chest) to kill US-unit and RU-unit, equal.
But I have a question: if we need 2 shots by 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 to kill unit, why SVD kills also by 2 shots?
I don't like one-shot marskman rifle, but also I don't like when 5.45mm/5.56mm cartridge kills by 2 shots.

So, I propose to reduce the damage of M4 and AK to 3 bullets to kill in torso.

Edited by BrossParavoss

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Its to balance marksman between regular rifleman. Remember they are a support role in putting down more accurate fire on enemy positions. If Marksman rifles were dropped down to any lower than 2 shots to kill, it would be too easy for lone wolfers to run around with marksman kits like they were some elite force recon sniper, 1 tapping everything.

Damage model is fine as it is.

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4 shots in the torso, are you having a Turkish xP

The m4 kills in 3 shots if you hit the arm , legs....

Whereas the svd kills in 2 even if you hit twice the leg. Also with the svd, if you hit the torso and the enemy doesn't bandage, fast= 1 shot kill

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Its to balance marksman between regular rifleman. Remember they are a support role in putting down more accurate fire on enemy positions. If Marksman rifles were dropped down to any lower than 2 shots to kill, it would be too easy for lone wolfers to run around with marksman kits like they were some elite force recon sniper, 1 tapping everything.

Damage model is fine as it is.

he clearly states that he doesn't like 1 shot weapons, so he's obviously not asking for that. While he didn't directly say so I'm assuming he means that 5.56 and 5.45 need to take more shots to down someone.

And I actually agree, while squad isn't suppose to be super realistic, if 7.62 is going to be 2 shots smaller calibres should at least be 3 to 4 shots.

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he clearly states that he doesn't like 1 shot weapons, so he's obviously not asking for that. While he didn't directly say so I'm assuming he means that 5.56 and 5.45 need to take more shots to down someone.

And I actually agree, while squad isn't suppose to be super realistic, if 7.62 is going to be 2 shots smaller calibres should at least be 3 to 4 shots.

I was just pointing out a marksman is just a rifleman with the advantage of being able to engage targets more accurately at longer distances compared to the standard rifleman. They should do the regular damage of standard rifleman as their advantage is more accurate fire over longer distances.

Changing smaller calibers to 3 - 4 shots to kill some one, not only would unbalance the game but also make US marksman near useless compared to other factions. 5.56 takes 3 - 4 shots to kill, would only mean US Marksman have a range advantage over US regular infantry but The Russian, Militia and Insurgent marksman would have a range and damage advantage not only compared to their regular infantry but compared to the US Marksman as well unless the person playing as the US marksman has some insane 100% head shot shooting skills.

I see the damage model being fine. Balance and fairness > realism.

 

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Can't wait for the locational damage to show up so people will stop posting these.

 

Me too. But don't forget about torso armor. At this point, current SVD damage is beautiful, but it isn't for small caliber.

 

I don't know exactly about pistols in game, but 9mm pistol round don't penetrate RU and US helmets and body armor. I want to see this in game.

In addition, if we are worried about locational damage, would be nice to have a useless legs or arms after being wounded.

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Me too. But don't forget about torso armor. At this point, current SVD damage is beautiful, but it isn't for small caliber.

 

I don't know exactly about pistols in game, but 9mm pistol round don't penetrate RU and US helmets and body armor. I want to see this in game.

In addition, if we are worried about locational damage, would be nice to have a useless legs or arms after being wounded.

 

 Uhm, I doubt a Kevlar helmet is going to stop a 9mm. 

 

 The SVD causes significantly more damage to characters than the AK and M4. Which actually reflects life pretty well, you bleed out faster when you have a bigger hole in your body. I mean you obviously haven't read any of the replies to your post. The SVD does more damage already. One bullet is going to make them bleed out in a dozen or so seconds when you would probably live minutes from the AK and M4 in game. Take a little look at the replies. Use the search function while you're at it. 

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 Uhm, I doubt a Kevlar helmet is going to stop a 9mm. 

MICH, ACH, MK7,SPECTRA,LWH, PASGT etc etc Helmets can withstand most low calibers such as pistol calibers; .22  .38  9mm and even .45 acp

But, some small calibers such as the 4.6x30 which were designed to have better ballistic qualities and higher penetration than other rounds listed above, would be like a knife through butter with a modern combat helmet.

 

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 Uhm, I doubt a Kevlar helmet is going to stop a 9mm. 

 

 The SVD causes significantly more damage to characters than the AK and M4. Which actually reflects life pretty well, you bleed out faster when you have a bigger hole in your body. I mean you obviously haven't read any of the replies to your post. The SVD does more damage already. One bullet is going to make them bleed out in a dozen or so seconds when you would probably live minutes from the AK and M4 in game. Take a little look at the replies. Use the search function while you're at it. 

 

No, I have read. But I have opinion too. You don't understand me: typical soldier armor defend body from grenades, pistols and small caliber. But if you got 7.62x53R or .308, your viscera had a stress more, than if you got small bullets, even without penetration. Think about this.

 

I'm not SVD user in SQUAD, my role is SL or medic often - it's not my wish only for me.

 

It's my opinion. If DEVs have another opinion then it's my problem and don't shut me up plz.

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I say absolutely not. I'd rather not play another bullet sponge shooter that requires me to put a large portion of my mag into someone to kill them. Two is perfectly fine.
 

COD? How about reality (armor of regulars)? How about balance?


How about the fact that if you actually get shot while wearing a plate carrier the best case scenario is that you're incapacitated? Plates aren't going to stop all that energy; a lot of the energy from the round goes straight through the plate and into your chest, which is when bruising starts. After two shots, you're likely going to have severe internal hemmoraging, and after three shots you're going to be dead in all likeliness. Plates are tough, the human body is not. Plates were designed to take five shots before breaking, the human body was not. 

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As a dev has said elsewhere, you need to factor in distance damage drop-off when comparing weapon damage. At larger ranges, the AK damage drop-off is significantly more than the damage drop-off from the SVD. Also, "two shots" - if one shot does 90% damage and the other shot does 55% damage, that's still quite a large difference damage-wise.

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I say absolutely not. I'd rather not play another bullet sponge shooter that requires me to put a large portion of my mag into someone to kill them. Two is perfectly fine.

 

How about the fact that if you actually get shot while wearing a plate carrier the best case scenario is that you're incapacitated? Plates aren't going to stop all that energy; a lot of the energy from the round goes straight through the plate and into your chest, which is when bruising starts. After two shots, you're likely going to have severe internal hemmoraging, and after three shots you're going to be dead in all likeliness. Plates are tough, the human body is not. Plates were designed to take five shots before breaking, the human body was not. 

 

 

Anyway 3 shots, but not 2. 

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Having to kill someone with 4 shots to the chest takes away from the hardcore sense of this game.  You're not going to always get chest shots, so 5-7 shots if you miss the chest and hit limbs? If I wanted that I'd go play battlefield.  A single .22 could kill a person just like any other round.

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Anyway 3 shots, but not 2. 

 

No, two shots for 5.56/5.45 to the body, one to the head, and three two the extremities. There's no reason that I should have to put three bullets into someone to take them out of the fight. If I put three bullets into someone, I don't expect them to be getting up until they spend a few months in a hospital far removed from the front; assuming that medics can get to them in time. 

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Sure change the damage for conventional forces, makes sense, but someone wearing a fucking shirt and pants shouldn't take four 5.56 rounds.

You mean you haven't found the Legendary Mithril Insurgent Shirt of Chora that gives +6 torso defense boost yet?

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COD? How about reality (armor of regulars)? How about balance?

Yeah exactly how about balance....when regular forces with armor needs 4 shots to goes down

And like insurgents with lower equipment and no optics needs only 2 shots to go down than u can be sure no one wants to play unconventional forces anymore and the flaming about asymmtrical warfare would be much bigger as it is right now...

And personally i have no problems with the marksman kit i only aim on the head headshot = Kill

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Yeah exactly how about balance....when regular forces with armor needs 4 shots to goes down

And like insurgents with lower equipment and no optics needs only 2 shots to go down than u can be sure no one wants to play unconventional forces anymore and the flaming about asymmtrical warfare would be much bigger as it is right now...

And personally i have no problems with the marksman kit i only aim on the head headshot = Kill

Yeah exactly how about balance....when regular forces with armor needs 4 shots to goes down

And like insurgents with lower equipment and no optics needs only 2 shots to go down than u can be sure no one wants to play unconventional forces anymore and the flaming about asymmtrical warfare would be much bigger as it is right now...

And personally i have no problems with the marksman kit i only aim on the head headshot = Kill

Yeah exactly how about balance....when regular forces with armor needs 4 shots to goes down

And like insurgents with lower equipment and no optics needs only 2 shots to go down than u can be sure no one wants to play unconventional forces anymore and the flaming about asymmtrical warfare would be much bigger as it is right now...

And personally i have no problems with the marksman kit i only aim on the head headshot = Kill

 

Pro Tip: If someone replies to a post while you're typing, you have to refresh the page after clicking post to see your posts because it breaks the forum itself and will allow you to just post over and over again in the exact same post. Might want to go back and trim down your reply. 

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Yeah exactly how about balance....when regular forces with armor needs 4 shots to goes down

And like insurgents with lower equipment and no optics needs only 2 shots to go down than u can be sure no one wants to play unconventional forces anymore and the flaming about asymmtrical warfare would be much bigger as it is right now...

And personally i have no problems with the marksman kit i only aim on the head headshot = Kill

 

It's not a big problem. Honestly, I don't understand: why devs gives regulars and rebels same count of tickets? It was very funny and interesting to play by Iraq rebels in PR on Fallujah for example.

 

That's a point of balance - count of tickets. And this is another thread.

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It's not a big problem. Honestly, I don't understand: why devs gives regulars and rebels same count of tickets? It was very funny and interesting to play by Iraq rebels in PR on Fallujah for example.

 

That's a point of balance - count of tickets. And this is another thread.

I think the ticket count will be changed when vehicles coming...i mean attack helis and tanks against insurgent forces there will be balance over the ticket count but in its current state its not extremely asymmetical the team with better communication and tactics wins and not while one faction is overpowered at the moment

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Pro Tip: If someone replies to a post while you're typing, you have to refresh the page after clicking post to see your posts because it breaks the forum itself and will allow you to just post over and over again in the exact same post. Might want to go back and trim down your reply.

Ive done it thanks

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It's not a big problem. Honestly, I don't understand: why devs gives regulars and rebels same count of tickets? It was very funny and interesting to play by Iraq rebels in PR on Fallujah for example.

 

That's a point of balance - count of tickets. And this is another thread.

 

We generally don't, Radio Tower and Chora v2 are the exceptions. One is specifically because it is a defensive gamemode and the other is because the lead mapper wanted to see Chora play with Insurgents against Russia.

 

Otherwise, Insurgents are only used in the insurgency gamemode just like PR.

 

Also, I am not going to explain this damage system again, someone else is more than welcome to find other similar threads where we discuss how this is a range issue, not a min. distance/max damage issue.

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