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AMD/FPS issues...is there a Diagnosis?

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Guest impulse

I'm suffering from the FPS/stuttering issues that many people have reported. I've tried a number of the community-reported "fixes" but I'm still having issues.

 

AMD 8350 fx

760 GTX

 

Have the devs diagnosed the problem?

  • Is it AMD?
  • Does it have to do with in-game audio?

 

I've heard that this is an AMD issue, but I've also stumbled across intel users reporting the same problems.

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In regards to that thread where it's mentioned about onboard sound i have an ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0 however in my case on-board is disabled and im running a dedicated Sound blaster z card with 5.1 headphones. Lot's of users experiencing this issue like myself claim to own an AMD FX series CPU and the most common of them is the 8350 may i suggest then that you might not get accurate data if testing is done exclusively on another AMD say a laptop etc likely running an APU what might help is a desktop with AM3 / AM3+ socket running bulldozer or Piledriver architecture.

 

I run an FX 8350 alongside an Nvidia 970 so i can eliminate the AMD GPU out of the equation and still get issues so it certainly does seem central to how AMD CPU's and most likely how the FX series is handling something within the engine and ingame but ofc i can't rule out other AMD CPU's are not affected because i haven't seen anyone pipe up who doesn't own an FX , but then it is unlikely that anyone this day and age is going to be trying to play squad with an AMD CPU over 5 years old and be stable.

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MinusKelvin suggested a lot of solutions on how to fix or at least try to reduce effect of the problem before they release UE4 performance patches. I'm just curious, have you even tried to apply any kind of solutions MinusKelvin suggested(instead of adding more holographic scopes for russians, for example)? And if you did try to solve the problem with provided possible solutions, I'm interested how it affected FPS on your AMD machines?

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My old Phenom II x4 965 BE and GA-790XTA-UD4 paired with a 280X didn't have VOIP stutters or any stutters at all. General low FPS as expected 15-25 range, around 70-80% CPU utilization. Everything on low.

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I'm just curious, have you even tried to apply any kind of solutions MinusKelvin suggested(instead of adding more holographic scopes for russians, for example)?

Indeed. Feels like this should be top priority since it's a large chunk of the playerbase.

If this fix isn't on the horizon in the near future (considering the comment above) i'm seriously considering a refund. I'm not paying $250 to buy a new cpu, since mine should run this game fine, on low settings at least.

It's appalling how this isn't highlighted on the steam page when you buy. So much fun in paying €35 to not be able to play a game. :angry:

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Guys, have it not occurred to you that the game basically runs on 1 core/thread at present?

 

6700k CPU highest mainstream IPC cpu that you can buy atm = 70-120 FPS on 72 ppl servers.

 

 

AMD FX8350 slightly higher IPC then a intel C2Q 9650 from 2007....

 

It is that simple.

 

 

Lots of games have this issue were they simply have bottle necked the code on an already bottleneck dx 11 api making advanced multiplayer games get bogged down by draw calls.

 

Fix to this? Hopefully DX12 will kill this sequential processing we have suffered  forever.

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Guest Guest

This is 2016 and a new next gen engine ( writhing a new engine this is relieant on OP IPC and linear instead of parralel at this time is just stupid )  , So basicly The EPIC guys fucked up and the Squad Devs don`t have the skill to fix this messup in spite of source access ?

Just look around in unreal engine forums you will find multiple thread about cpu limits in Bigger Projects.

Iam also afraid of comming "optimizations" until EPIC is rewrigthing in core parts to work parralel ( they mention allready some month ago the rewrigth adio module and take it out of main thread ).

 

My greates hope is that Epic is forced to do so because the consols are both AMD based and a huge market that cant be ignored.

 

BTW i own a 5820K and seeing it utilization ( even with -dx12 command no change so its probly only a api backend fapped on the engine in 4 h of work ) is painfull.

 

 

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hope is that Epic is forced to do so because the consols are both AMD based and a huge market that cant be ignored.

 

Mine too.

Everyone just keeps pushing it under the covers saying too bad suck it up or we don't know what's wrong, but hey I am sure if it was an Intel performance issue then there would be rioting in the streets and a quick performance patch released...

I am actually a little sick and tired of it all to be honest, the AMD performance issue is ONLY effecting games that run Unreal Engine 4 so, I am now steering clear of all Unreal Engine 4 games including Squad.

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I won't feed speculation but it is most certainly, in some part, as AMD limitation. 

 

The likely fix once we have profiled it in the face of the newest information from EPIC will be to reduce the quality of some sound features. 

 

I know I have said this before in other threads but this is affecting our business of course but we can't put everything on hold for it when both AMD and EPIC couldn't give us much additional information and had no solutions themselves (not to mention other games having these issues)

 

We would love to fix it if anyone knew exactly the cause. 

 

lacking that we have been profiling and will be working on a solution as best we can in parallel with continuing development. Doing otherwise would be making a MUCH larger portion of the player base suffer for what might simply be "the feather on the camels back" as the EPIC rep alluded to. 

 

Hopefully worst case..we nerf the sound features for AMD users. Not my favourite solution mind you. 

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Guys, have it not occurred to you that the game basically runs on 1 core/thread at present?

 

6700k CPU highest mainstream IPC cpu that you can buy atm = 70-120 FPS on 72 ppl servers.

 

 

AMD FX8350 slightly higher IPC then a intel C2Q 9650 from 2007....

 

It is that simple.

 

 

Lots of games have this issue were they simply have bottle necked the code on an already bottleneck dx 11 api making advanced multiplayer games get bogged down by draw calls.

 

Fix to this? Hopefully DX12 will kill this sequential processing we have suffered  forever.

Finally someone with common sense. ;)

If anyone is interested. Here is a link to a CPU single thread performance list. - Quite informative.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

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I won't feed speculation but it is most certainly, in some part, as AMD limitation.

Ok. But could you please explain what kind of limitation is that, exactly. What CPUs are fit best for Squad(graphics and sounds) and UE4 in general and why? It will help me when I'll be choosing my next CPU from Intel.

What's the recommended tech characteristics of CPU for Squad? Obviously, CPU should be from Intel. Number of cores? Will UE4 be optimized for 6/8 cores in next years or should I just get quad-core? Are CPUs without built-in GPU work better than CPUs with built-in GPU in Squad or is it the other way? CPUs on what sockets works best in Squad? What's the best core architectures for Squad? What about FSB/QPI/HT/etc? Recommended L2/L3 Cache?

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naoeverdadeiro_zpsuev8bgmq.png

 

 
I want to know when it enters into force these requirements?
 
With all due respect, yet that's false advertising!

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Hopefully worst case..we nerf the sound features for AMD users. Not my favourite solution mind you. 

 

If this turns out to be the case when you exit beta, I hope you put up a disclaimer.

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naoeverdadeiro_zpsuev8bgmq.png

 

 
I want to know when it enters into force these requirements?
 
With all due respect, yet that's false advertising!

 

 

You're right my Squad folder is only 8 GB. I want my other 4 GB of game as my processor goes all the way up to 4 ghz.

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naoeverdadeiro_zpsuev8bgmq.png

 

 
I want to know when it enters into force these requirements?
 
With all due respect, yet that's false advertising!

 

how is it false advertising? you can play the game with those specs, not at 60 FPS but its playable.

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how is it false advertising? you can play the game with those specs, not at 60 FPS but its playable.

In theory, everything is possible, but it is not what we are seeing in practice.
 
Just look at the number of players with machines superior to what he calls the minimum requirements , and can not play decently .
 
But okay let's hope it is after all just a game in alpha .
 
But that does not give you the right to lie .
 
Here is my personal opinion .
 
Good day .

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The problem here is OWI is to small on buget an manpower with the skills in UE4 ( its new and even epic can`t adress this problem properbly ) , If they could they would fix it but they even can`t isolate the problem .

I know its a sad situation when you own a decent AMD FX or high clocked PII hexacore but keep hanging in there they will solve the issue as soon they can!!

I have yet to see a EA title based on UE 4 that clean & transparent ( the devs honestly answer that they can`t fix it right now cause they don`t know the mechanics of it to happen) and full of lovley details like physical correct smoke e.g.

 

The whole oposite is ARK e.g. these devs bomb the game with nonsens updates , breaking even more stuff, an missing to deliver key features.

Its performances is worst i saw so far if you compare the delivered grapics fidelity ( imo worse the crysis 1 jungle but 10 times more demanding )

You can use DX12 in Squad if you like too even if its not perfect , the dev let the baker decide freely ! , a feature ARK used a advertised and  is delaying since months and patronise the player with thier its not ready,bad performance .... bullshit

 

So i think if you give OWI some more time they will find a solution.

 

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naoeverdadeiro_zpsuev8bgmq.png

 

 
I want to know when it enters into force these requirements?
 
With all due respect, yet that's false advertising!

 

 

This is not false advertising at all.

 

What you guys must understand is that the game suffers from lack of parallell work spread. This is due to

1) nature of dx11 api

2) easier to write and debug sequential code in the development phase.

 

It is no JOKE at all when you say the AMD top cpu at current has the single threaded performance of a 9 year OLD intel c2q cpu, no joke at all.

 

Complex multiplayer games have a lot of draw calls made all the time, and if they are executed in a sequential way all the draws are queued on the same thread. This is what you currently can observe with Squad on 72 man servers, depending on how high IPC you cpu has (more modern has generally higher IPC and you cannot compare clock vs clock between different generations within the same brand/make) you can compensate for the sequential (ANCIENT) way of running a program (in this case a GAME) by brute forcing it, using a SUPER HIGH IPC processor, such as the 6700k clocked to 5 ghz.

 

So basically what you AMD users see atm is the result of

 

1) dx11 not being ABLE to handle more then one thread speaking to the API at any one given time throwing out a lot of parallell potential from modern multi core cpus

 

2) Nature of advanced multiplayer games that need every part of the code to be in-sync to not cause a breakdown of game play.

You can offload certain parts of the game to other threads but it might not matter one bit in the end since it still has to WAIT for a draw call synced with the main thread that is STILL being bogged down and having most of its draws stuck in a sequential queue. A-B-C-D-E etc..

Battlefield crew has done a GOOD job of fixing their broken sequential engine and made it much more multi threaded - this is at the expense of sync though, which everyone who played BF4 can see. Remedy to sync issues will be increased tick rate which adds more draw calls and raises bandwidth needed, and round it goes.

 

3) Lack of a working dx12 plug-in and supporting code

 

Imagine 2 TEAMS designated to carry 100 liters of water from point A to B.

 

AMD team has 3 guys with 3 smaller 2 liter buckets. (lower ipc but higher parallell potential)

 

Intel team has 1 guy with 1 larger 5 liter bucket. (higher ipc but lower parallell potential)

 

Now if the path (dx11+sequential coding) from point A to B only allows one guy at a time to run his bucket it doesn't matter that you have 3 guys ready to run the distance since the PATH from A to B is bottle-necked by its design.

 

The larger 5 liter bucket will run more water over time then then 3x2 liter buckets can do since they cannot all run at the same time, but have to wait for each other (dx11 api).

 

This is the dilemma with the code and dx11 path at the moment, that is why INTEL is crushing AMD. 

 

 

Bottom line is INTEL and AMD cpus are not equal, far from it and if you have bought an AMD cpu to play advanced multiplayer games with lots of unscripted ACTION you have made a mistake.

 

 

/edit

 

Oh and to answer the statement regarding phony minimum requirements. Squad can be ran on a 6700K cpu with only 2 cores turned on with HTing ON. Making it basically a 2 core cpu. Add some ram and a 980 ti and you will still have 70 min frames with maxed settings ~1080-1200p resolution.

 

One core will run the game and 1 core for OS. HTing offloading OS paralleled threads for background systems. Extremely high IPC 5 ghz core 0 will run the game and core 1 will run the OS. Toss in HTing to add to parallell potential for the OS, which is FULLY multi-threaded and scaling properly with the added threads available.

 

/edit2

 

I am writing this owning myself a X5650 system with 6 cores 12 threads but with ~70% of the IPC single core brute force performance of a 6700K.

Add 5 ghz to the equation and you got a 30% clock by clock lead in compute and you got 20% higher clocks. Add it up, cut some away the non linear scaling and you look at a GOOD chunk higher performing cpu core by core.

 

I am also disappointed and cheated out of my parallell cpu potential :)

 

/edit3

 

Oh and to further my point with a non-real life apply-able synthetic benchmark "nut-shelling" AMDs much weaker IPC performance here, is a SS of CPU-Z obviously subjective single core performance benchmark.

 

bQuS1pM.png

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What you guys must understand is that the game suffers from lack of parallell work spread.

*snip very interesting stuff*

Very informative and comprehensively written.

Thank you very much.

Do you have by any chance some sources/links regarding this topic up in your sleeve?

 

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Very informative and comprehensively written.

Thank you very much.

Do you have by any chance some sources/links regarding this topic up in your sleeve?

 

 

 

Can start off with this:

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9112/exploring-dx12-3dmark-api-overhead-feature-test/3

 

It is pretty obvious the differences and the utter dead end dx11 has been.

 

/edit

 

Please be advised this is a synthetic benchmark application and can not be translated 1:1 to any other app, such as a game.

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