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Locked squads Good Idea or bad idea?

Squad locking   

400 members have voted

  1. 1. Locked squads will be good for the game

    • Yes
      278
    • No
      118
    • I am going to comment anyway!
      11


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2 minutes ago, MauserGDog said:

 

The only issue I worry about is too many Sniper/Spotter 2x man squads doing nothing to help the team.

 

With current kit restrictions, that's not possible. It likely never will be possible.

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1 minute ago, Tartantyco said:

 

With current kit restrictions, that's not possible. It likely never will be possible.

 

Of course, that right. I think I'm on board with Locked Squads.... ;)

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7 hours ago, MauserGDog said:

I see your point, but would you join an air only squad as infantry?

 

Because all the infantry squads are locked at small numbers and the one open one is full :P

 

10 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

 

I'm starting to feel like the people who are oh-so-worried about the new players getting shut out are actually the same people who know they would be the ones getting locked out, because they: 

 

I'm against locked squads at this point in time, and I have been leading infantry squads and trans in PR since 2006, so let me tell you that your feelings are misguided. I've done the clan thing, the locked squads thing and the open squads thing, and honestly while I agree with the concept of locked squad sizes for assets, for infantry I feel like the squad locks did more harm than good, when looking at the growing the community aspect.  For the undeniably selfish "I just want to play with my friends" aspect, they are great. I have used them for that purpose on multiple occasions in the past (mostly during my clan days), because it's also undeniably true, that playing with a group of people that you can trust 100% is a whole different experience. It's like the difference of coming from COD/BF to squad/PR the first time, is how different the gameplay can be when you have 4-7 competent squad members that you've played with and can trust without any micromanagement. 

 

That being said, locks are kind of a necessity and thus I would support servers being able to customize automated locking rules. For example things that were mentioned above, squads can only be locked with >5 members, or more than half the squads must be unlocked (although that isn't really fair since it just becomes a "race for the lock" which I think is stupid). Or locking of only asset squads, which relegates those squads to only crewmen kits (Plus maybe rifleman and medic for while the assets are down). These kind of rules are things I can get behind, but the issue with rules like this is that there are edge cases where the rules may preclude variations on gameplay. 

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@Psyrus nice post, it sums it up pretty well for me. Im one of those who make friends only squads, when I just wanna chill or practice a bit on public servers with some clan mates. Some times I dont feel like playing with a bunch of randoms. But Ive also been SL on public servers plenty of times, where public players and my clan mates play alongside each other. It can be nice, sometimes not so nice.

 

That being said, Id be more receptive to have some public players in my squad if it was possible to make it max out at 6 players. Then Id usually only have like 2-4 "randoms" in my squad, depending on how many clan mates are also in the squad (usually I play public with 1-2 clan mates). It would require less micro-management, Id have time to get to know them a bit, and the squad would be more effecient as its easier to manage. Might even be a pleasent experience.. 

 

Im talking about being able to make smaller squad than 9-man. This wouldnt the same as being able to lock squads, as you can tell. 

 

However, I also want the ability to lock squads in the future, but I can see why devs wanna wait a bit before introducing that.

Edited by plissken

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On 2016-11-24 at 1:43 AM, Romby said:

I have never experienced this. Play on admined servers. People like this will be banned. 

Yes of this. When you are your friends were new you had squads to join  and learn the game. What we need now is being able to lock new players out of our squads, so they will never learn game from experienced players. 

I disagree. PR:BF2 runs like a well oiled machine most of the time with locked squads - CAS only needs 3 players to fly the choppers, LOGI only needs maybe 3 people. Backcap/Fob Hunters might run with 4, locked squads are a necessary function and I wish people would stop preaching about how it'll hurt new players so badly constantly. They'll still learn, regardless of what squad they're in - after all all squads needs members, noob or not.

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Way to contribute to the discussion.. perhaps you have actual reasons aside from the subjective beaten to death "THINK OF THE NOOBs!" ?

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13 hours ago, Arduras said:

I disagree. PR:BF2 runs like a well oiled machine most of the time with locked squads - CAS only needs 3 players to fly the choppers, LOGI only needs maybe 3 people. Backcap/Fob Hunters might run with 4, locked squads are a necessary function and I wish people would stop preaching about how it'll hurt new players so badly constantly. They'll still learn, regardless of what squad they're in - after all all squads needs members, noob or not.

Of you read my posts you would see that I'm not against locked Cas, tank, logi and so on squads. I'm against locked Inf squads. 

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You already have the option to kick someone from your squad, that's powerful enough but it would be a nice idea to have  at-least 4 people in a squad to be able to lock it. I honestly think the bigger the squad the more powerful you cant meet knew people if your always in a locked squad.

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Kicking someone from your squad doesn't really do anything, they can just rejoin and continue trolling.
I think locked squads are a good idea for various reasons, mostly to do with vehicles and various tasks a squad might undertake.

 

I urge you to play PR for a weekend before saying closed squads will somehow ruin the game.

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1 hour ago, sturdypencil said:

You already have the option to kick someone from your squad, that's powerful enough but it would be a nice idea to have  at-least 4 people in a squad to be able to lock it. I honestly think the bigger the squad the more powerful you cant meet knew people if your always in a locked squad.

 

How can you not meet new people in locked squads? Locked squads don't discriminate against who joins your squad, they only stop more people from joining once it's locked. If I make a squad and lock it once 6 people have joined, I've been no more or less discriminatory against new players than if I let it fill to 9 people.

 

Also, bigger squads aren't inherently more powerful. In fact, I see a lot of 9-man squads fail precisely because they're so many people that the Squad Leader is unable to effectively manage and lead his squad.

 

And any player you have in your squad is one that cannot be used more effectively somewhere else. If you're running around behind enemy lines, tearing down FOBs and cutting off supply lines, having 9 people in that squad is not a good thing. You can do that job with 3-5 people, meaning you have 6-4 players contributing effectively nothing to the team effort. Your team is likely underpowered on offense or defense, and will be overrun by the enemy as a consequence.

 

Effective manpower distribution is an essential part of the game, and locked squads/size restricted squads is necessary to accomplish that.

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2 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

How can you not meet new people in locked squads? Locked squads don't discriminate against who joins your squad, they only stop more people from joining once it's locked. If I make a squad and lock it once 6 people have joined, I've been no more or less discriminatory against new players than if I let it fill to 9 people.

 

Also, bigger squads aren't inherently more powerful. In fact, I see a lot of 9-man squads fail precisely because they're so many people that the Squad Leader is unable to effectively manage and lead his squad.

 

And any player you have in your squad is one that cannot be used more effectively somewhere else. If you're running around behind enemy lines, tearing down FOBs and cutting off supply lines, having 9 people in that squad is not a good thing. You can do that job with 3-5 people, meaning you have 6-4 players contributing effectively nothing to the team effort. Your team is likely underpowered on offense or defense, and will be overrun by the enemy as a consequence.

 

Effective manpower distribution is an essential part of the game, and locked squads/size restricted squads is necessary to accomplish that.

 When I meant locked squads I meant a team of guys you've already played with. and When I said a full squad is a good thing I mean every class can be used like medic and you can stay alive longer. Just my opinion.  

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This thread is going in circles. But I hope it keeps doing that, so the devs notice there really is a need for a solution.

 

I know several players whove invested 500 hours, 1000 hours and even 1500 hours in this game, and there comes a point where playing squad on public servers just becomes a complete turnoff. Forcing these kind of players to join 9-man squads where most squad members will be clueless beginners, becomes very tiresome and uninspiring after some time. There needs to be some middle way here.

 

And now you have Squad Box which are making servers that only allows players with 150+ hours to enter. So experienced players are running away from the public servers because they arent fun or are too demanding, and beginners will be left all to their own... they wont get a feel of any community or have many to learn from.

 

Maybe the idea behind having only 9-man squads, and no squad lock, was to promote the community and keep it beginner-friendly. But its starting, and has for a while, to achieve the opposite effect. Let people make smaller squads than 9, and the experienced players might actually bother (and enjoy?!) squad leading and the like. Having 3 noobs in a 6-man squad is infinitely more managable than having 6 noobs in a 9-man squad.

 

And dont tell me I can just use the kick function to make the squad-size I want, or I might just teamkill myself right now.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by plissken

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3 minutes ago, plissken said:

This thread is going in circles. But I hope it keeps doing that, so the devs notice there really is a need for a solution.

 

I know several players whove invested 500 hours, 1000 hours and even 1500 hours in this game, and there comes a point where playing squad on public servers just becomes a complete turnoff. Forcing these kind of players to join 9-man squads where most squad members will be clueless beginners, becomes very tiresome and uninspiring after some time. There needs to be some middle way here.

 

And now you have Squad Box which are making servers that only allows players with 150+ hours to enter. So experienced players are running away from the public servers because they arent fun or are too demanding, and beginners will be left all to their own... they wont get a feel of any community or have many to learn from.

 

Maybe the idea behind having only 9-man squads, and no squad lock, was to promote the community and keep it beginner-friendly. But its starting, and has for a while, been achieving the opposite effect. Let people make smaller squads than 9, and the experienced players might actually bother (and enjoy?!) squad leading and the like. Having 3 noobs in a 6-man squad is infinitely more managable than having 6 noobs in a 9-man squad.

 

And dont tell me I can just use the kick function to make the squad-size I want, or I might just teamkill myself right now.

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, someone gets it.

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8 hours ago, sturdypencil said:

 When I meant locked squads I meant a team of guys you've already played with. and When I said a full squad is a good thing I mean every class can be used like medic and you can stay alive longer. Just my opinion.  

 

Yeah, but that's not what locked squads are, so that opinion is irrelevant to the question at hand. Neither is your second statement true. Just because you have access to more kits doesn't make your squad more powerful. It's the effective use of your manpower and kits available that makes you powerful, and 9-man squads are generally poorly organized, low-mobility, and poorly deployed compared to smaller squads.

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17 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

Yeah, but that's not what locked squads are, so that opinion is irrelevant to the question at hand. Neither is your second statement true. Just because you have access to more kits doesn't make your squad more powerful. It's the effective use of your manpower and kits available that makes you powerful, and 9-man squads are generally poorly organized, low-mobility, and poorly deployed compared to smaller squads.


It's really all about potential. As a 9 man infantry squad you have a much larger potential to be effective, than a 4 man squad, but also a larger potential to **** up.

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Stopping players from re-entering the squad they were kicked from would be a better solution than locking squads. There would be too many friends locking up and people will be creating squads just to play. Having a few noobs in your squad will be better than having 5 extra noob leaders.

Edited by GhostNI

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5 minutes ago, GhostNI said:

Stopping players from re-entering the squad they were kicked from would be a better solution than locking squads. There would be too many friends locking up to public and there would be way more people creating squads that dont want to just to play.


That's actually how it works now. If you get kicked you can't rejoin for like 5-7 minutes.
There's not a problem with people rejoining squads, the problem is that there's like 30-50 new players throughout a match, even if the server is full of people you won't be able to maintain a small squad.


My tip is: Make friends ingame before locked squads are included. 
PS: I don't think more than 20% of all squads will be "friends only", though I am sure 80% of squads will be mic only

Edited by Peerun

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this is a good idea. with the new release of the heavy IFVs, the concept of each squad using or having one is already a problem. having one squad dedicated to transport (logi runs and IFV Drops and Pick ups) and heavy fire support is key. say squad 1 is pinned, SL1 calls SL4 (Support squad) for fire support. SL4 can now plan where to deploy a IFV while SL1 continues to focus on their squad. at the same time SL 2 is setting up a much needed FOB, SL2 radios SL4 for a logi. guess what a loaded logi is sent out, FOB is built, AND the logi is returned to base so now the enemy cant blow it up which costs tickets.

 

now locking the squad would help this as you dont have to have a full squad for this. IFV = 2 People Logi = 1

say you have 2 IFV and 2 Logi. thats 6 + the SL which the SL can ride along in one of the Logi which allows him to watch the map and focus on comms.

this will be even more required as more vehicles are released. it would also be up to the SL when to lock it. 

a Smart SL would fill up the squad and have the extra guys ride in the logi in case the driver gets shot or as extra shovels to hep build real quick

before returning the logi.

 

and last, but not least, for those who say " but then you will have 9, 4 person squads!"

no you wont. PR Servers let you lock asset squads. but if you locked a INF squad then you could not lock it.

i mean you still could but then a admin would be on you about locking it.

"but admins are not always around!"

thats ok as the most popular servers will be the ones with the most active admins.

 

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Locked squads should have been added ages ago. There are plenty of tactics that are much better off with fewer than a full squad. Simply running a 3 man logistics operation, driving around the map dropping fobs and supplying them can be extremely effective. Dedicated armour squads that act as interdiction, and self-directed fire support can also be very effective. There are also smaller infantry squads that might be running counter-FOB ops, where a small group of 3-4 guys walk around behind enemy lines looking for stuff to dig up.

 

In all these cases there needs to be a smaller number than max to be effective, and anyone else in the squad would just be useless, and should be forced to join another squad.

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Don't know if someone said that before in this thread, but to have an Access to create a (maybe teamlimited) 4 / 6 / 9 Squad would be nice, maybe.

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Please for the love of god let me lock my squad. I play squad leader extremely frequently, alternating every match with one of my mates. We love playing with strangers and teaching new players the ropes, but on rare occasions we will name the squad "(our clan) only" or "(our clan) artillery team" and take a couple artillery technicals. However people dont seem to get the message, since as soon as I spawn I've got a full squad of random infantry players. Forcing me to turn my squad into infantry with a truck on the side instead of a dedicated mobile artillery team. 

 

If lockable squads are not implemented when more important assets are, I will be very concerned.

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Dunno why this is even a discussion. Thought this game is supposed to be the successor of PR. It works well in Project Reality so why should it not be in Squad?

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