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Locked squads Good Idea or bad idea?

Squad locking   

400 members have voted

  1. 1. Locked squads will be good for the game

    • Yes
      278
    • No
      118
    • I am going to comment anyway!
      11


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@Stepping Razor maybe something like that could work if you had huge spacings ("could be a mile apart each other", you say), do take huge map control while you are moving about. Not gonna deny that! But two things: you practically never see that happening in public games, after 10 years of PR I hardly imagine you really see that there either (at best you can get a nice line with good spacing, but often you see people getting clumped up). And secondly, most of the time what you need to do is to push the objective, if most of your guys arent fighting most of the time, then probably you arent as effective as you could be (just how the game modes are designed currently). And for fighting, what I find most effective is having fireteams pushing from multiple directions, formed as lines facing the enemy.

So I conclude with what has been discussed so many times already, 9-man squads in this game is usually overkill. Especially without fireteams with their own seperate rally points.

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2 hours ago, Stepping Razor said:

The order that your squad is moving on a target is super important and varies depending on what your squad is tasked with. Here is an example of a 9 man squad. just moving through some trees.

The issue with straight up locked squads is it takes this perfectly rounded Squad and turns it into a Squad that has a very specific role, say like AT, or Fire support being you will no longer be able to fill all the positions needed to combat everything you face.  At this point the coordination between the Squad Leaders will have to be spot on, example "enemy BTR inbound Requesting AT support from Squad 5" ,  or "Squad 1 Assaulting point Alpha Requesting fire support from Squad 3".  If this coordination is not there, it will be just about impossible to deal with these 9 man squads.

guess ill just quote myself again because i don't think any of you actually read what i said twice.

 

Its right here, check out squad positioning.

QuickStartGuide_Keyboard.jpg?version=b91

Edited by Stepping Razor

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1 hour ago, MauserGDog said:

So far, I haven't encountered a scenario where I miss locked squads.

 

What are you going to do when you make an Attack Chopper squad that seats two players? Are you going to be running 7 infantry players in addition, leading them from the cockpit?

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17 hours ago, Peerun said:


So you can play the game instead of  kicking people that join your squad, all the time.

Really? it takes like 2 seconds to kick someone from the squad !

What about if a newcomer,  "A team player" wants to learn how to play squad ? You just going to lock him out of the squad and not let him experience how shit works in this game?     Way to be a team player bro !!!!!  

Edited by Devastation

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2 hours ago, Stepping Razor said:

guess ill just quote myself again because i don't think any of you actually read what i said twice.

 

Its right here, check out squad positioning.

QuickStartGuide_Keyboard.jpg?version=b91

Haha nice one. Still, you didnt mention the difficulties a 9-man squad has, like how difficult it is for a squad leader to do anything but being a shepherd of sheep who follow him (babysitting in many cases). I have a much easier time dealing with newbies in a 6-man squad, especially if I already have a couple guys in there that knows what they are doing. I even have time to get to know them, to show them the ropes. Its often discouraging to SL for 8 randoms.. So often all you can do is get meat grinder action.. everyone running from same direction into the enemy... unless you wanna enter micro-management hell.

I guess its nice to have access to all the specialty kits, to have "saturated squad" so to speak. But it doesnt really weigh up for the extra rally points you get when you make more squads, and all the extra medics you get when you make many 6-man squads. I think in general its more effective to make two squads of six (so you have two medics in each squad), and then set up rally points from two different directions and take it from there.

Frankly, the only kits you rally need is 1-2 anti tank, 2 medics, and preferably a GL, maybe a ACOG guy. Thats all you really need, and with a 6-man squad you pretty much get all of that.

With smaller squads (4-5) you have to make some sacrifices, sure. But you still get a anti-tank guy with you to hunt vehicles, and you can much more easily come up behind enemies and their fobs to wreck havoc.

Edited by plissken

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11 minutes ago, Devastation said:

Really? it takes like 2 seconds to kick someone from the squad !

What about if a newcomer,  "A team player" wants to learn how to play squad ? You just going to lock him out of the squad and not let him experience how shit works in this game?     Way to be a team player bro !!!!!  

 

Have you tried running a squad with less than 9 people? People join all the time. And then there's the issue of you noticing if people join. And then they eat up some spawns on your RP. And then you kick them and they come to TK you and your squad. And if they don't, you have a player stranded in the middle of nowhere with no equipment to be effective against the enemy. If I wanted to keep my RP up with a non-9-man squad, I'd literally have to sit in the squad menu kicking people before they manage to select the RP and spawn in.

 

And being a team player means furthering your team's chances of winning, not holding a boot camp for every noob who jumps on the server. If you're running a squad that performs a specific function that benefits your team, and you're not wasting manpower by running a 9-man squad doing a 5-man job, you are a team player.

 

The idea that a 3-man squad is less of a squad than a 9-man squad is just a cancerous mindset. I've never run more effective squads than when I have 6 or less members. The massive mobility advantage you gain, the reduced reaction time, the greater granularity your team has in distributing their manpower effectively, and the reduced footprint of your squad is a great boon for your team.

 

And the fact is simply that locked(Or size restricted) squads are an inevitable necessity. With assets like attack choppers, tanks, logistics, mortars, etc., you'll need to limit squad sizes to the amount of crew needed to operate those assets, or you'll just have a bunch of asset squads with a bunch of lonewolves, or a bunch of poorly run and ineffective multi-disciplinary squads.

 

Nothing about that is good team play. Nothing about that sets a good example for new players.

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On 2016-02-08 at 9:48 AM, Mad Ani said:

What about when you get some joker joining and leaving constantly? If he joins and TKs. If he joins and craps up comms?

Speaking of which, had 2 guys join from the enemy team and spawned on our super FOB, they TK'd everyone and then changed back to the other team. Votekick needs to be implemented!

This happens way too often, and when it happens repeatedly it empties the server and the trolls ruin other games. Having a team switch in the middle of the game was a terrible idea, imo.

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21 minutes ago, MauserGDog said:

So far, I haven't encountered a scenario where I miss locked squads.

 

Neither have I..   even a rare occurrence in years of Battlefield.  But the option would probably be a good thing to have.

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3 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

Have you tried running a squad with less than 9 people? People join all the time. And then there's the issue of you noticing if people join. And then they eat up some spawns on your RP. And then you kick them and they come to TK you and your squad. And if they don't, you have a player stranded in the middle of nowhere with no equipment to be effective against the enemy. If I wanted to keep my RP up with a non-9-man squad, I'd literally have to sit in the squad menu kicking people before they manage to select the RP and spawn in.

 

And being a team player means furthering your team's chances of winning, not holding a boot camp for every noob who jumps on the server. If you're running a squad that performs a specific function that benefits your team, and you're not wasting manpower by running a 9-man squad doing a 5-man job, you are a team player.

 

The idea that a 3-man squad is less of a squad than a 9-man squad is just a cancerous mindset. I've never run more effective squads than when I have 6 or less members. The massive mobility advantage you gain, the reduced reaction time, the greater granularity your team has in distributing their manpower effectively, and the reduced footprint of your squad is a great boon for your team.

 

And the fact is simply that locked(Or size restricted) squads are an inevitable necessity. With assets like attack choppers, tanks, logistics, mortars, etc., you'll need to limit squad sizes to the amount of crew needed to operate those assets, or you'll just have a bunch of asset squads with a bunch of lonewolves, or a bunch of poorly run and ineffective multi-disciplinary squads.

 

Nothing about that is good team play. Nothing about that sets a good example for new players.

Second everything written here.

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I'd hate this - I already hate not being able to get into a squad because it's full and having to make my own with not very good SL experience.

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I think locked squads is not ok at this point in time.

However, in the near future when more content gets added such as tanks and helis then the need for separate locked squads will be needed.

I think 15 squads is enough and a good limit to have on an100 slot server with a few small squads running specialty tasks.

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7 hours ago, Arduras said:

This happens way too often, and when it happens repeatedly it empties the server and the trolls ruin other games. Having a team switch in the middle of the game was a terrible idea, imo.

I have never experienced this. Play on admined servers. People like this will be banned. 

8 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

Have you tried running a squad with less than 9 people? People join all the time. And then there's the issue of you noticing if people join. And then they eat up some spawns on your RP. And then you kick them and they come to TK you and your squad. And if they don't, you have a player stranded in the middle of nowhere with no equipment to be effective against the enemy. If I wanted to keep my RP up with a non-9-man squad, I'd literally have to sit in the squad menu kicking people before they manage to select the RP and spawn in.

 

And being a team player means furthering your team's chances of winning, not holding a boot camp for every noob who jumps on the server. If you're running a squad that performs a specific function that benefits your team, and you're not wasting manpower by running a 9-man squad doing a 5-man job, you are a team player.

 

The idea that a 3-man squad is less of a squad than a 9-man squad is just a cancerous mindset. I've never run more effective squads than when I have 6 or less members. The massive mobility advantage you gain, the reduced reaction time, the greater granularity your team has in distributing their manpower effectively, and the reduced footprint of your squad is a great boon for your team.

 

And the fact is simply that locked(Or size restricted) squads are an inevitable necessity. With assets like attack choppers, tanks, logistics, mortars, etc., you'll need to limit squad sizes to the amount of crew needed to operate those assets, or you'll just have a bunch of asset squads with a bunch of lonewolves, or a bunch of poorly run and ineffective multi-disciplinary squads.

 

Nothing about that is good team play. Nothing about that sets a good example for new players.

Yes of this. When you are your friends were new you had squads to join  and learn the game. What we need now is being able to lock new players out of our squads, so they will never learn game from experienced players. 

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10 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

What are you going to do when you make an Attack Chopper squad that seats two players? Are you going to be running 7 infantry players in addition, leading them from the cockpit?

Let's see if attack helicopters will be added. 

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8 hours ago, Devastation said:

Really? it takes like 2 seconds to kick someone from the squad !

What about if a newcomer,  "A team player" wants to learn how to play squad ? You just going to lock him out of the squad and not let him experience how shit works in this game?     Way to be a team player bro !!!!!  

This. Locked squad was probably the reason why I never got into PR. Every second time I booted up the game it was an awesome experience. All other times you would land on a server were every squad was locked. So me a completely new player had to run around as rifleman alone.

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46 minutes ago, Romby said:

Let's see if attack helicopters will be added. 

 

They're confirmed. But there's also tanks, transport choppers, mortars, etc.

 

Quote

When you are your friends were new you had squads to join  and learn the game. What we need now is being able to lock new players out of our squads, so they will never learn game from experienced players. 

 

There is nothing about locked squad that excludes new players. Stop claiming this bullshit. What if I'm running a 6-man squad that's full of new players? What then?

 

With smaller squads, there will be more squads to choose from, and more squad leaders to choose from. Your bad arguments are bad.

Edited by Tartantyco

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Since you mention PR, I'll take up the cudgels for us PR veterans: The influx of new players in 1.3 is what is killed my motivation to lead people I don't know, simply put. Describing my experiences as "mixed bag" would be an understatement, of course I've found several well behaved, hard working newbies(not meant in a derogative way) who genuinely try their best, even if it is hard to swiftly follow through with a person's wishes in a videogame simply because no other game('cept ArmA and Squad) depends on it. That I understand and I'll take it into consideration when dealing with them messing up. But not nearly all newcomers are like that, some people don't have mics, others don't feel like taking orders from anybody, some people come and leave just to grab a certain kit. I often just want the necessary kits, "2 medics, AR, LAT, Breacher, rest Rifleman" but 30 seconds into the game I have all sorts of different kits, but no riflemen, and only 1 medic(9 times out of 10). Thank you so much for ruining MY free time. There is, unfortunately for new players, no easy way to tag you as "waste of time" or "good player", it's all done by recognition. Gaining a good reputation takes time, true, but you WILL see people opening the squad for you if they know your name once you've made a positive impression.

Edited by Frontliner

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53 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

 

They're confirmed. But there's also tanks, transport choppers, mortars, etc.

Can you link where they are confirmed? Last i heard they were sure about transport helicopters. But unsure about attack since there is a unlimited viewrange (meaning they can attack whole map from above their mainbase).

 

56 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

There is nothing about locked squad that excludes new players. Stop claiming this bullshit. What if I'm running a 6-man squad that's full of new players? What then?

 

With smaller squads, there will be more squads to choose from, and more squad leaders to choose from. Your bad arguments are bad.

Yeeeeaaaah right, locked Squads will be used for making squads with new players. Sure that is totally what you will do. You know i also use pirate bay to torrent only legal files.

 

More smaller locked squads does not mean i have more squads to choose from. Just means there are more squads i cant join.

 

Locked squad is excatly that: "Excluding players you dont want to play with". Read through the thread. Almost everybody who argues for locked squad mentions that they only wants to play with their friends. Yes ok a lot of people also argue about the need for smaller squads for tanks and i understand this argument. But then make a new type of squad (no need to lock squads). Tank/heli squad where members can only pick crew/pilot kits.

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42 minutes ago, Frontliner said:

Since you mention PR, I'll take up the cudgels for us PR veterans: The influx of new players in 1.3 is what is killed my motivation to lead people I don't know, simply put. Describing my experiences as "mixed bag" would be an understatement, of course I've found several well behaved, hard working newbies(not meant in a derogative way) who genuinely try their best, even if it is hard to swiftly follow through with a person's wishes in a videogame simply because no other game('cept ArmA and Squad) depends on it. That I understand and I'll take it into consideration when dealing with them messing up. But not nearly all newcomers are like that, some people don't have mics, others don't feel like taking orders from anybody, some people come and leave just to grab a certain kit. I often just want the necessary kits, "2 medics, AR, LAT, Breacher, rest Rifleman" but 30 seconds into the game I have all sorts of different kits, but no riflemen, and only 1 medic(9 times out of 10). Thank you so much for ruining MY free time. There is, unfortunately for new players, no easy way to tag you as "waste of time" or "good player", it's all done by recognition. Gaining a good reputation takes time, true, but you WILL see people opening the squad for you if they know your name once you've made a positive impression.

 

Yes the best way to keep this game alive for a long time is telling new people they cant play with us because he might not understand the game.

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1 hour ago, Frontliner said:

I said exactly none of what you're implying. Read thoroughly before you spout a nonsense accusation.

What you are saying is that you close your squad to new players forcing them to play alone for a long time. Then at some point they have proved they are good enough for you and then you will invite them to your squad.

 

I dont know how you plan to remember their names among the thousands of players that play squad at the moment. But ok new people have to play alone or with unexperienced SLs because all experienced SLs sits behind a locked door. They then have to make an impresion on you (how they can do this when not being in your squad i dont know) and then they are allowed to play with you.

 

This is not at all telling people they cant play with us experienced SLs. Sure!!!

 

Everything can be fixed without locked squads. Add a system where SL can lock certain kits so people wornt use them. Add a system so there are more squad types with different max player number (mortar/artillery, tank, heli, logistics).

Edited by Romby

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2 hours ago, Frontliner said:

Since you mention PR, I'll take up the cudgels for us PR veterans: The influx of new players in 1.3 is what is killed my motivation to lead people I don't know, simply put. Describing my experiences as "mixed bag" would be an understatement, of course I've found several well behaved, hard working newbies(not meant in a derogative way) who genuinely try their best, even if it is hard to swiftly follow through with a person's wishes in a videogame simply because no other game('cept ArmA and Squad) depends on it. That I understand and I'll take it into consideration when dealing with them messing up. But not nearly all newcomers are like that, some people don't have mics, others don't feel like taking orders from anybody, some people come and leave just to grab a certain kit. I often just want the necessary kits, "2 medics, AR, LAT, Breacher, rest Rifleman" but 30 seconds into the game I have all sorts of different kits, but no riflemen, and only 1 medic(9 times out of 10). Thank you so much for ruining MY free time. There is, unfortunately for new players, no easy way to tag you as "waste of time" or "good player", it's all done by recognition. Gaining a good reputation takes time, true, but you WILL see people opening the squad for you if they know your name once you've made a positive impression.

btw i want to comment this again. You make a locked squad with 5 of your friends and you choose the kits 2 medics, AR, LAT, Breacher and a SL. How does 3 randoms joining you make you lose a medic??

 

Honestly if you dont want to play with people you dont know i suggest playing COOP Arma missions or making a event like Squad Ops only for experienced players. If you want to join public servers and enjoy having other people (experienced/newbies) playing the role of organized teammates or enemies then you have to do your part as well. That means sometimes having new people in your squad and pushing them in right direction. Will it always be fun. No i guess not. But is part of the game.

Edited by Romby

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8 minutes ago, Romby said:

What you are saying is that you close your squad to new players forcing them to play alone for a long time. Then at some point they have proved they are good enough for you and then you will invite them to your squad.

 

They don't play alone, there's like 6-8 other squads available(in PR). Scratch 2-4 squads manning assets and you have 2-4 squads to choose from.

 

Quote

I dont know how you plan to remember their names among the thousands of players that play squad at the moment. But ok new people have to play alone or with unexperienced SLs because all experienced SLs sits behind a locked door. They then have to make an impresion on you (how they can do this when not being in your squad i dont know) and then they are allowed to play with you.

 

PR's player base is much smaller than Squad's. It works there. I don't believe for a second I'll be remembering every player down to the very last, but here's the thing: Those players who I DO remember out of the hundreds I do because they are either good or because they are terrible - Trolls, TKers and griefer. Other than that people who are in Clans are also a safer bet compared to players named 1337sn1p3rk1ll3R.

 

I recently was forced into an SL position, and I still remember a guy called Sind(very decent medic) and a guy called Otin(had no mic but tried to communicate). There were two or three more who did great that round and lived up to my expectations and though I fully admit I forgot the names I'm confident I'll remember them if I see them. Just from a single round(that I didn't even finish). The rest weren't worth to remember(+ a TKer) so I just don't.

 

I was in several inexperienced squads in my PR time, I'm still playing the game, your point being? I played the game because I wanted to play it, to get better at it, and even though I admit PR 0.95 was a better point for a newbie to start than PR 1.3 is, you will get to where I am if you are persistent and give people a positive impression.

 

What you can do to make a positive impression even though you're new and not in my squad? Call out hostile positions of assets and FOBs in the team's chat. Drop ammo for me if I you have some and I need some. Revive my mates if you're nearby and it's possible without huge risks. Engage in some of the chit-chat we're occasionally having over the team's chat without coming of as either cocky or stupid. Follow the rules. Be a sportsman. Apologize for TKs.

Do I state anything extraordinary here? Is anything shocking to you? I doubt it, in fact if anything's going to be shocking to you, it's the simplicity of it.

 

Quote

This is not at all telling people they cant play with us experienced SLs. Sure!!!

 

No need to be upset, it's just how I handle things. Others do it differently, some don't care. Who's right? I don't know. I just want to have a good time, that's all.

 

From your words it seems you're somehow under the misconception that you're entitled to receive a slot in my squad. You aren't. Has nothing to do with you being a noob or somebody else being a noob, if I don't know you, don't count on it.

 

If it makes it easier for you to accept, I currently handle my Squad squads a bit different from my PR squads. My Squad squads are open for everybody except critters, no-mics and those unwilling to work with me. I don't know anyone just yet. Once that ceases to be the case it'll be tighter.

 

Quote

Everything can be fixed without locked squads. Add a system where SL can lock certain kits so people wornt use them. Add a system so there are more squad types with different max player number (mortar/artillery, tank, heli, logistics).

 

Not a big fan of those to be honest.

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5 hours ago, Romby said:

This. Locked squad was probably the reason why I never got into PR. Every second time I booted up the game it was an awesome experience. All other times you would land on a server were every squad was locked. So me a completely new player had to run around as rifleman alone.

 

Exactly my point !

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