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Chuc

January 2016

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To be fair neither shotgun is really in proper active use. But the saiga is also an automatic shotgun. When the whole point is to not make the russians use the shotguns as their primary combat weapon, it would not be ideal to give them a fully automatic one with a large mag.

 

While I understand what you're saying here, I don't know if the actual Saiga 12 is select fire or if that's just something that has been made as a post-transferrable machine gun after it originally started being touted in the US as an "automatic shotgun" (something that likely means semi-automatic and is easily construed as fully automatic). On top of this, the Saiga 12 is (as far as I know) only issued to the MVD with 5 round magazines, which is actually less than US service shotguns have in their tubes. Also, the way you're making it sound seems like they can actually kill people if used to do so but are just ineffective in combat because they're pump-action rather than semi automatic or even select fire. If that's the case, I'm happy to hear that because too often games don't give shotguns the credit they deserve because they'll definitely kill someone if they hit their target. 

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Model looks great. And KS-23 is really interesting thing that I'd like to see to be used properly, just as you are planning.

It is just breaking immersion, not for only nitpickers like me, samogon or VarenykySupreme. Due to agressive politics and modernization of armed forces of Russia, attention to russian military increases, not to mention actually russians, who sees the difference between dufferent branches even clearer, than average american fps player sees the difference between us army and usmc.

Russians don't use shotguns, it has historical, political, even geographic reasons. But it doesn't mean that russians don't know how to breach door. It may be easier to implement than you suppose :)

According to the afore cited wikipedia article, the KS-23 has been adopted by the Internal Troops of Russia, which has apparently dealt with the Chechen rebellions among other things. I find that reasonably appropriate given the existence of Rus v Militia maps. As also has been stated, it might be most prevalent on Militia kits, where standard issue firearms are less common, and thus variation is more appropriate.

 

More to the point, it sounds like its there for a possibly temporary and specific purpose; to facilitate breaching. As you suggest there may be other options, but, mirroring kits in alpha implementations would seem to make maintaining early parity a bit easier while we wait for other elements more crucial to quality asymmetrical warfare.

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According to the afore cited wikipedia article, the KS-23 has been adopted by the Internal Troops of Russia, which has apparently dealt with the Chechen rebellions among other things. I find that reasonably appropriate given the existence of Rus v Militia maps. As also has been stated, it might be most prevalent on Militia kits, where standard issue firearms are less common, and thus variation is more appropriate.

 

More to the point, it sounds like its there for a possibly temporary and specific purpose; to facilitate breaching. As you suggest there may be other options, but, mirroring kits in alpha implementations would seem to make maintaining early parity a bit easier while we wait for other elements more crucial to quality asymmetrical warfare.

 

But there are Russsian Ground Forces in Squad, not Internal Forces. At this stage of development it is really hard to designate branch of russian faction considering on their equipment and outfits, but further development may make them look like some kind of Battlefield-style mix.

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According to the afore cited wikipedia article, the KS-23 has been adopted by the Internal Troops of Russia, which has apparently dealt with the Chechen rebellions among other things. I find that reasonably appropriate given the existence of Rus v Militia maps. As also has been stated, it might be most prevalent on Militia kits, where standard issue firearms are less common, and thus variation is more appropriate.

 

More to the point, it sounds like its there for a possibly temporary and specific purpose; to facilitate breaching. As you suggest there may be other options, but, mirroring kits in alpha implementations would seem to make maintaining early parity a bit easier while we wait for other elements more crucial to quality asymmetrical warfare.

 

Thinking with this method (and, with the thought in mind that the stock and pump arm of the shotgun might be modeled separately and attached to the KS-23), why not add the KS-23 to the militia and the KS-23M to the Russians as the KS-23M is the variant currently in service with the MVD as it's shorter, has a folding wire stock, and is basically designed for breaching? Just my 2 cents on if the KS-23 must definitely be there.

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While I understand what you're saying here, I don't know if the actual Saiga 12 is select fire or if that's just something that has been made as a post-transferrable machine gun after it originally started being touted in the US as an "automatic shotgun" (something that likely means semi-automatic and is easily construed as fully automatic). On top of this, the Saiga 12 is (as far as I know) only issued to the MVD with 5 round magazines, which is actually less than US service shotguns have in their tubes. Also, the way you're making it sound seems like they can actually kill people if used to do so but are just ineffective in combat because they're pump-action rather than semi automatic or even select fire. If that's the case, I'm happy to hear that because too often games don't give shotguns the credit they deserve because they'll definitely kill someone if they hit their target. 

 

Special carbines used by MVD. The upper one is 18,5KS-K based on Saiga, the lower one is 18,5KS-P based on MR-153.

 

1.jpg

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I wonder how the IED will work :) which class on the insurgent team will use it ? Can it be placed anywhere on the map ? Can it be disarmed by enemies ?

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Special carbines used by MVD. The upper one is 18,5KS-K based on Saiga, the lower one is 18,5KS-P based on MR-153.

 

1.jpg

 

Looking at the Molot/Vepr-12 up top, if that's the shotgun issued then it's definitely not select fire as it's missing a third notch as well as a sear retaining pin. Also, I thought the Saiga-12K and MVD adopted Vepr-12s had 16.9 inch barrels rather than 18.5"?

 

The other shotgun is certainly interesting though; I haven't heard of it up until this point and will definitely have to do some research. 

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I want to see those Mortar IEDs make a nice big realistic boom :)  Bruno please do your magic!!  B)

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The smoke effects were amazing.... But when you guys showed off the dust effect from the weapons I got stunned.

You guys... damn you guys are god

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Really like the surface disturbance from exiting gas from gun fire, will help a lot with spotting enemies as well as adding extra immersion. 

New smoke effects are great! True sky is amazing...and omg PPSH <3

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Saiga is hunting shotgun,as well as Molot and Vepr.

But looks like some of them already adopted.But anyway - KS index is for Special Weapons.Mostly for Counter Terrorism operations.

 

To be fair we are not doing this and we are not planning on making parity factions, it is simply a matter of certain mechanics need certain things to work, such as slugs for breaching doors (the ks-23 isn't necessarily planned to have buckshot). The factions will diverge both in terms of equipment but also in terms of vehicles and how they are used. But diverging factions (which needs mechanics) is a massive amount of work. We know that everything is not perfect, but we are quite content with that atm.

 

How about C2 like charges.Plastic explosives used wide in Russian Ground forces.Small charge,which break the door.

or maybe boom stick,like on video?It's actually Police too,but... naaah just kidding.But about Explosive door opening - why not?

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Saiga is hunting shotgun,as well as Molot and Vepr.

But looks like some of them already adopted.But anyway - KS index is for Special Weapons.Mostly for Counter Terrorism operations.

 

 

How about C2 like charges.Plastic explosives used wide in Russian Ground forces.Small charge,which break the door.

or maybe boom stick,like on video?

 

This is what I was thinking when I said shotguns aren't a necessary balance edition. Rather than the Russian military having a shotgun, they could very easily have their own kicker charge as well as a larger plastic explosive charge that they use to destroy FOBs and other things. America tends to employ kicker charges as well, that is assuming it's a door that can't just be kicked down. I'd also have to check if they're standard issue or just a SF thing but I know Remington makes a Serbu Super Shorty-esque shotgun that is meant to be carried on a lanyard so that you can breach a door and immediately drop the thing to your side and grab your regular rifle. 

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Looking at the Molot/Vepr-12 up top, if that's the shotgun issued then it's definitely not select fire as it's missing a third notch as well as a sear retaining pin. Also, I thought the Saiga-12K and MVD adopted Vepr-12s had 16.9 inch barrels rather than 18.5"?

 

The other shotgun is certainly interesting though; I haven't heard of it up until this point and will definitely have to do some research. 

 

enough-is-enough.jpg?w=634

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KS-23... well.

Actually this is non lethal/lethal shotgun for Law Enforcements.Used for drop CS gas and non-lethal rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KS-23

It's actually not even combat shotgun.Just special weapon,for special purposes.

 

this doesn't fit the regular army concept.

 

All rest,pretty good.

 

maybe that can fit with insurgents, since they like to steal weapons of the enemy.

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maybe that can fit with insurgents, since they like to steal weapons of the enemy.

 

Find this weapon in Insurgent hands.

Well,there is much higher chance to see, how homeless driving Mercedes-Benz.

First - used only by police.

Second - only ex-USSR nations have it.It wasn't exported somewhere.

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Find this weapon in Insurgent hands.

Well,there is much higher chance to see, how homeless driving Mercedes-Benz.

First - used only by police.

Second - only ex-USSR nations have it.It wasn't exported somewhere.

First- they can steal from the local police

Second we can have maps temes in ex-USSR nations

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I really want to see those muzzle dust effects in 3rd person from the sides and front. Must look epic! Bruno is a wizard!

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