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RAF faction Ideas.

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Hello.
I've already make some posts about Russian equipment,but it turns into holywars,so it's makes no sense.
The reason,why I create this thead:

  • This game is aimed for reality,instead of just pewpewhavingfun.So I think they should stay as much as possible closer to current TOE and Structures.
  • Some Nations doesn't have some specialisations.Like - we don't use shotguns use Bolt-Action Sniper rifles in Army,only SF operators have it.
  • You anyway can't balance weapons,vehicles etc,etc,etc... at least because of their characteristics.
  • PR's conventional kits was copy/pasted.The main diffirence between it - diffirent 3d models.

But I have some ideas.I will stay around my experience,and expecially - this http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/1661-the-weapons-thread/?p=160666

 

Idea 1.

But first - fast facts about RAF.

  1. Usually(99%) soldiers doen't have optics or red-dot.Only VDV uses some optical sight,but there is reason - their squad have only 5 dismouts,instead of 7,they cannot have SVD per squad.So - VDV Platoon around 20 man,while Motor-Infantry is around 30 man.
  2. Typical rifle squad have such weapon,which many western military have at Platoon level.Like PKM is 8kg 7.62 Machinegun,which used by crew of 2.RPG also used by crew of 2.Most infantry squad have Sniper with SVD.
  3. Disposable launcher used very wide.RPG-26 weighs only 3kilograms,and effective maximum fire range of 250 meter.But effective range of them is around 100 meters,because of trajectory(Slow start speed and weight of rocket makes their deal).
  4. There is also exist another type of disposable lauchers - Assault Grenades and Reactive Flamethrowers.Assault Grenades,like RShG1 and RShG2 used by Army,FlameThrower used by NBC forces.But many Brigades have at least 1 NBC Company inside them and they're usually work together with Motor-Rifles or VDV.

 

Instead of optic - use limited riflemans with RPG-26 or RSHG2.Also increace quantity of SVDs.

You will tell me,it would be unfair,but I suggest use it instead of HE grenade.So,still US rifleman will have at least one.

Squad Roles:

-Squad Leader

-Medic

-Rifleman(Default)

-Rifleman(RPG26 instead of Hand Grenade)

-Rifleman(RSHG2 instead of Hand Grenade)

Fire Support Roles:

-Grenadier(2)

-RPK gunner(2)

-RPG gunner-Light loadout(1) //PG-7VL and OG-7V

-SVD gunner(1,avaible after 7 mans reached)

Team Roles

-PKP/PKM gunner(Some quantity)

-RPG gunner-Heavy Loadout //Tandems and VL??(Counts as PRs HAT)

-Flamethrower //Equipped with RPO-A Thermobaric Reactive Flamethrower.It will be unique weapon of RAF factions.Effect should be like 122mm arty shell explode,but without fragmentation.

 

Idea 2.If there is optics already created - why just don't create VDV subfaction?It's like US Marines - they have some diffirent equipment,diffirent vehicles,diffirent purposes.Almost everything already ingame.But... this is light infantry,they doen't have any heavy support.Their IFV - BMD-2,have similar armor to BTR-80.

The only possible vehicles is BMD-2/4 2S25 Sprut(Self-Propelled 120mm gun),Short-Base 4x4 Kamaz Truck,BTR-D and BTR80.

 

Well,thats all...

If you're don't trust me - I'll keep Ground Forces Combat Manual(part 3),you may read it by yourself,well if you know Russian.

http://militera.lib.ru/regulations/0/g/2005_bu3.pdf

 

And please - If you're still thing I'm wrong,please find proofs first.

 

Edit:

So I think about kit loadout.

 

First off,I must explain it's structure,as well as combat attachments.

 

Forces,which Devs aimed are Motor Rifles,aka Motostrelki.This forces is an infantry,which primary uses APCs(BTR) and IFV(BMP) as transport,with support of tanks,artellery and short/medium range anti-air vehicles.

 

Russian army pretty much unified over structure,so they also should works with Marines and Air Assault(BMP or BTR mounted) units with a very little changes.But I will stay around some unknown Motor Rifle(3 Rifle Battalions,1 Tank Battalion,1 AA Battary(Of diffirent vehicles),1 Howitzer Battary).

Vehicles like Tigr or Rys' are special purpose vehicles,they primary used by SF.

 

Rifle Battalion have inside 3 Companies,1 recon platoon,1 arty platoon,1 weapon platoon(AGS(Primary) and/or HMGs) and 1 ATGM platoon(if this battalion mounted on BTRs).So they have their independed reconance and fire support unit.

 

Company consist of 3 platoons and HQ.They might have their own HMG team.They also might have the 4th platoon,a temporary attached teams from diffirent units or their own battalion: AGS team,ATGM team,HMG team,Flamethrowers,Engeeners etc etc.

 

Platoon have 3 squad,squads is same.

IRL Squad is:

1)Squad Leader

2)Junior rifleman

3)MG gunner

4)Assistant

5)RPG-7 Gunner

6)Assistant

7)Rifleman(old type) or Sniper(new type).

8,9)2 Crewmans

10)Platoon leader of Platoon sergeant as vehicle commander.

 

And now again fast facts:

1)Every squad by default have PKM/PKP at new type units and old style have RPK74.

2)Every squad have RPG-7 as Squad Anti tank weapon.

3)Modern type of squad have snipers with SVD rifle.

4)Besides this - Russian army actively uses Reactive Grenades(Ruchnaya Protivotankovaya Granata - RPG),they might be used by any soldier.But meanwhile RPG-7 is a Grenate Launcher(Ruchnoy Protivotankovyi Granatomet - also reads as RPG),might be used only by trained solder.Assault grenades are reactive grenades with a thermobaric warhead agaist soft skinned targets and infantry.

5)Optics on AK are rare.Very rare.As well as Holo sights.

6)Reactive flamethrowers.They used only by special type of forces - Chemical Defence forces.But usually they work together with Motor-Rifles,so makes sence to add this to game.If someone doesn't know what is it,please seach for RPO-A or RPO-M.

 

For those,who don't want to read my sensible scribbles,skip it and read idea.

 

Idea is about Kit Loadout - as you can see above,some weapon going to be rare today,but still used.

So my i think,that kits should be like this.

Squad Roles:

1)SL(No optic)

2)Rifleman(Unlimited)

3)Rifleman AT(Reactive Grenade or Assault Grenade,limited)

4)Medic(Limited)

5)Breacher(Of course screw that KS-23,TNT FTW)

6)Engineer

7)Crew

Support Support Roles:

PKM/PKP gunner

RPG gunner

Grenadier

Sniper/Marksman(SVD)

Team roles:

Rifleman(Optic)

RPK gunner

HAT(RPG-7 with PG-7VR or maybe RPG27 grenade)

Flamethrower

MANPADs operator

Recon/Observer(VSS Val short range silent sniper rifle,instead of BLUFOR long range sniper)

 

as for counter this - just add more optics for M4 for BLUFOR.This make gameplay much more assymetrical,but still I think it's still going to be fun.

Edited by samogon

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I'm all for variety and love asymmetrical factions, so fully support this kind of thinking.  :)

 

But i also don't give a rats arse for realism over good game design. Personally i think the game is pewpewhavingfun... and there is nothing wrong with that.

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Man, way to many groups use RAF as their abbreviation. The first one which came to my mind was the Red Army Faction, because they commited another robbery and it was in the newspaper this morning, than I thought that would not make any sense, so I thought it could be the Royal Air Force. When finally starting to read  samogon's post I got it.  :lol:

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Do Russian soldiers use hand grenades when they have RPG-26s?

 

disposable launcher RPG-18 was a replacement for RKG-3 anti-tank hand grenade.It actually was an RKG-3,but with extendend range.

So,this kind of weapon also counts as Grenades,so even Grenadier or Machinegunner may have it.And yes - usually solider may have both Hand grenades and Disposable launcher.But this idea to remove hand grenades is only about balance.

ReconCompany4thOTBr29.jpg

ReconCompany4thOTBr28.jpg

 

 

Man, way to many groups use RAF as their abbreviation. The first one which came to my mind was the Red Army Faction, because they commited another robbery and it was in the newspaper this morning, than I thought that would not make any sense, so I thought it could be the Royal Air Force. When finally starting to read  samogon's post I got it.  :lol:

 

Thats why I make some tags. :)

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I think it's ok for RPG-26s to coexist with the hand grenades. Since the US have slightly more range with reflex optics, it makes sense to have the Russians possessing something to make up for it.

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Russia and US aren't meant to be asymmetrical

 

Yes they are.

 

Even if both factions had equal access to weapon optics they wouldn't be symmetrical due to the major differences in equipment like LATs and ARs.

 

This will be especially true when vehicles become a major factor since Russian and US vehicles are based on entirely different doctrines.

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Yes they are.

 

Even if both factions had equal access to weapon optics they wouldn't be symmetrical due to the major differences in equipment like LATs and ARs.

 

This will be especially true when vehicles become a major factor since Russian and US vehicles are based on entirely different doctrines.

 

And I agree with you there.

Just tell a few things devs can't balance by non-cod way(Like if it's have huge firerate,they must have kickass recol or have almost no damage).

  • Small arms.Firerate of AK/RPK can't be encreaced.Round quantity can't be extended in SVDs magazine.
  • Vehicles.All transport vehicles like BTR,BMP,BMD,MTLB are floatable without preparations,and also - less armored that most NATO vehicles.They also have superion cannoon weapon.Like - BTR-80A wheeled APC 2A72 have 30mm automatic cannon with ROF of 330rpm.BMP2 and BMD2 - eveh harder,30mm 2A42 with firerate of 600 rpm.BMP3 and BMD4 - tandem of 100mm cannon and 30mm 2A72.We doesn't use light vehicles like TIRG or RYS'(Iveco LMV) in army,only reconassance and police units use it wide.Tanks usually have ATGMs,SABOT,HE and HEAT shells,while typical NATO tank have SABOT and HEAT.
  • Helicopters.We doesn't have light transport helicopters in Active service,like UH1.The main attack chopper is Mi24,which also not easy to balance too AH-1 for example.But they used in diffirent role.

offtop:

How do you balance TOS-1.Heavy Flamethrower.They have short range of 3600m(New missiles have 6000m) meters,but every rockets hits twice or more harder that 200mm+ assault artellery.Such weapon never exists in any NATO military.

1385781944_20712892.jpg

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Yes they are.

 

Even if both factions had equal access to weapon optics they wouldn't be symmetrical due to the major differences in equipment like LATs and ARs.

 

This will be especially true when vehicles become a major factor since Russian and US vehicles are based on entirely different doctrines.

different weapons doesn't really equate to asymmetric warfare

they're meant to play largely the same and I am fairly sure they will, just like they did in PR

the "major differences" you mentioned mostly come down to magazine capacity and damage values mostly

there's no point trying to analyse the current Russian army (seriously how many fucking posts on optics do we need), it would be totally different in a total war scenario

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there's no point trying to analyse the current Russian army (seriously how many fucking posts on optics do we need), it would be totally different in a total war scenario

 

Nukes keep the peace.If there will be total war - it will ends very fast.

 

But let's back to topic:

While NATO gives high attention to personnel equipment,we don't.But squad,platoon and company weapons are much better that any NATO analog,they got higher priority for modification.Such kind of weapon and vehicles always had higher priority in Soviet/Russian army,that personnel gear

 

For example:

RPG - used in every squad.Today - this is multipurpose weapon with various FRAG,HEAT and even Thermobaric rockets.

PKP weight is only 8kg,but their purpose same as M240.And it's used as SAW,each squad have it.

AGS-30 - 30mm Automatic Grenade launcher,weight only 16kg with tripod(For example 7.62 M240 weght around 12kg).

KORD 12.7mm HMG - weight only 25kg,might be used with bipod.

KORD.jpg

Vasilek Semi-Automatic 82mm Mortar.May shoot burst of 4 shell with firerate of 120rpm.

 

If we go into the vehicles... well if you're played PR - you should know,how powerful they are.

 

Did you still think that optics is to much nessesary?Just need to enhance strong sides instead of mirror-balancing.

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Did you still think that optics is to much nessesary?Just need to enhance strong sides instead of mirror-balancing.

 

I think we might be seeing widespread optics for the Russians as a stop gap measure until the more specialised gear is developed. At least that's my hope, but people might get shitty if they've been given scopes then lose them.

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Thought you meant this RAF?

e87a7898a8.jpg

Dear God don't remind me... Met a couple of those types during my time in the ATC. I'm not eligible to join because my medical history says 'Asthma' yet we've got these heart attacks waiting to happen... What is the Air Force coming to...

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You are right, different guns don't equate asymmetrical warfare. Insurgency 2 did it wrong here, everyone has almost carbon copy approaches to gear and explosives, the only difference being armour being slightly more expensive for the insurgents (and most of us don't use armour), and that some guns are just different.

 

But as they've said, it depends on the squad mechanics too, how you play around with the roles and equipment provided to force players to approach the game differently. Giving the rifleman an RPG-26 to complement their hand grenade to counter CompM4s, and giving heavier armaments to lighter-armoured vehicles to encourage surprise attacks and fast strikes against heavily armoured and slower foes are good ways to go about it.

 

We do know that 1P29s and 1P78s are coming, but boy can we hope they are only reserved for SLs.

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The scopes are already in development, the russians will receive whether you like it or not, OP.

Zj4SNKU.png

 

 

Russia and US aren't meant to be asymmetrical

the factions should be largely the same with the exception of the weapons used

 
+1, what people seem to forget is that asymmetrical balance takes a huge amount of time to accomplish. I don't know about you but I rather have other things instead of that between conventional armies. At least in the beginning. 

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  • This game is aimed for reality,instead of just pewpewhavingfun.So I think they should stay as much as possible closer to current TOE and Structures

This game is focused on finding the perfect balance between reality and pewpewhavingfun.

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This game is focused on finding the perfect balance between reality and pewpewhavingfun.

 

How do you imagine that?

Some says Battlefield3/4 is very realistic FPS.But instead we have... pewpewhavefun.

 

To me - Realism in games is a bullshit.You're will think diffirent,thats a soldier in real combat.You will never feel fear,pain,hunger while you're playing PC game.

But there is exit some games,which trying to be realistic.I think better idea to go with it as maximum as possible.

 

The scopes are already in development, the russians will receive whether you like it or not, OP.

 

First - game still at Alpha.Everything may change.As far as I know - PR changes a lot of times.Some likes it,some dislikes it.

But read Idea 2 first.

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I do like your Idea, but I don't think it should be on the table for at least a year from now. 

 

I'd rather have 2 new factions than one with complete realism to a certain grade. 

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How do you imagine that?

Some says Battlefield3/4 is very realistic FPS.But instead we have... pewpewhavefun.

 

That is what developers stated a few times. If they can imagine keeping a balance between realism and fun, then i don't really see a point arguing with that. They are doing a great job in this aspect so far.

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That is what developers stated a few times. If they can imagine keeping a balance between realism and fun, then i don't really see a point arguing with that. They are doing a great job in this aspect so far.

 

There anyway exist some factions, who have equipment,which cannot be mirrored.Like French with their rifle grenades.

bazooka_1724433i.jpg\

Or Russian reactive flamethrowers.

d80b97d8123fb6c5b7acd0940a4d31e1_cropped

 

Make factions unique is better way that just copy and paste.

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