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Points-Based Asset Allocation System

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POINTS-BASED ASSET ALLOCATION SYSTEM

 

Just went over the post as vehicles have just been released, and thought I'd update it.

 

The objective of this system is to create an asset distribution system that allows greater access to required assets, gives teams the ability to dynamically shape and react to a changing battlefield situation, while maintaining a reasonable presence of assets on the battlefield.


 

Points Resource

The points resource is a system exclusive resource that is passively accrued by players and used solely to purchase vehicle assets. The points resource is divided into three types: Squad, Crewman, and Pilot.

 

Points Pools

Each player has three pools, one for each of the Squad, Crewman, and Pilot points resources. The starting and minimum value of these pools is 0. A maximum value may be set. Points are not interchangeable between pools.

 

Points Accrual

To accrue points, a player first needs to be part of a squad. Once the player is part of a squad, he will accrue points into one of his three points pools based on his kit selection. Selecting a Crewman or Pilot kit results in the player accruing points in those respective pools. Selecting any other kit results in the player accruing points into the Squad pool.

 

Points are only accrued while a player is spawned in on the map. Players who are dead or have not yet spawned in do not accrue points. Players with Pilot and Crewman kits can only accrue points while within 100m of a Purchase Area, or while operating an owned asset.

 

The default accrual rate is 10/sec.

 

Points Expenditure

Squad points can only be spent by a Squad Leader with an Officer kit. The Crewman and Pilot points can be spent by the players who have accrued them while those respective kits are equipped. Squad points can be spent on light vehicle assets such as trucks, lightly armed APCs, and jeeps. Crewman points can be spent on all ground vehicles not in the Squad category. Pilot points can be spent on any aircraft.

 

Joint Purchase

Multiple Crewmen or Pilots can combine their pools to purchase vehicle assets. All involved in the transaction then count that one asset as their active asset, with all reductions and penalties that involves.

 

Purchase Areas

Vehicle assets can only be purchased in designated areas. These include helipads, hangars, and parking areas within respective Main Bases, but can also include captured objectives, such as airfields, and deployable structures.

 

Active Asset Limit

An individual player can only have one active Crewman or Pilot vehicle asset at a time. A squad can have multiple Squad vehicle assets active at a time. An active asset is one that is still on the battlefield, including any immobilized or abandoned vehicles.

 

Active Asset Accrual Reduction

When a player or squad has active vehicles assets, the rate at which points are accrued is reduced, based on the type of asset. For Crewman and Pilot assets, low tier, low risk assets impose a greater reduction than high tier, high risk assets. For Squad assets, a flat reduction of -3 is imposed per active vehicle asset.

 

Loss Penalty

When a vehicle asset is destroyed, players receive a penalty to their points accrual based on how long the vehicle asset was active before being destroyed.

 

A 0 accrual period is applied based on how long the vehicle remained active. This is calculated by dividing 20 by the time(in minutes) the vehicle spent on the battlefield(20/6=3,33. Penalty applied for 3 minutes, 18 seconds). From 20 minutes on, a flat 1 minute penalty is applied. During this penalty time, the player accrues no points.

 

If a Squad vehicle asset was lost, this penalty is applied to all squad members. If a squad loses multiple Squad vehicle assets at the same time, the penalties are applied consecutively.

 

If a Crewman or Pilot vehicle asset was lost, this penalty is applied to the individual(s) who purchased it.

 

The penalty in full applies only to the points resource pool of the vehicle asset lost. The penalty is not applied if the vehicle is destroyed by team damage.

 

Carried Negative Penalty

The 0 accrual period is applied to other resource pools at 50%.

 

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This system would allow teams to decide their own vehicle layout instead of relying on pre-set vehicle compositions by map layer, drastically increasing the gameplay variety derived from individual maps.

 

The division of the Points Resource into the Squad, Crewman, and Pilot Point Pools encourages players to stick to their roles, as does the relative reduction imposed by the Active Asset Accrual Reduction and Carried Negative Penalty. A Crewman can’t simply use his Crewman points to get an Apache, and an Infantry squad can’t suddenly turn into a tank division. Players operating low-risk vehicle assets won’t be able to accrue large resource pools that would tempt them to splurge on high-tier vehicle assets that they feel they can just waste, either.

 

The passive Points Accrual encourages and rewards asset conservation. In concert with the Loss Penalty, the players who keep their assets alive for a long time manage to accrue more points to quickly purchase a new asset after an asset loss and avoid harsh penalties. Meanwhile, the Carried Negative Penalty ensures that a Pilot who loses his asset cannot avoid punishment by simply switching to a Crewman kit and start accruing Crewman points without penalty.

 

The various mechanisms work together to reduce and eliminate most potential for abuse, griefing, and waste, and focuses on punishing the individual players and squads instead of the team as a whole.

 

Asset Access

Squad Leaders can grant and revoke access to any individual vehicles they have purhcased, as well as seating, to any squad or team member. Crewmen and Pilots can grant and revoke access to any individual vehicles they have purhcased, as well as seating, to any squad or team member

 

Team Asset Restrictions

Restrictions on the type and number of assets available to any team can be implemented in any way preferred. Hard caps(3 tanks only active at once, etc.), a team resource pool restricting how many assets can be active at once, potentially further restricted by asset category, or any other solution preferred.

 

“Changelog”

Simplified most mechanisms by removing exponential functions in favor of flat and linear ones.

Made all penalties and reductions tied to individuals.

Removed negative points pool values.

Edited by Tartantyco

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1. Would your system result in no respawns? As in the only way an asset becomes available again by purchasing?

 

If yes;

 

1. What happens if team A loses the initial armor or cas battle against team B and thus didn't earn any pilot or crewman points, how do they now reaquire points so they can try again?

 

2. What if a player gets a D/C or leaves, does the team lose all that persons squad points?

 

3. Doesn't this system promote very defensive asset gameplay? As in sorry but CAS and Armor won't support infantry because we don't want to risk losing the assets + points.

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Elektro

 

1. You accrue points simply by being in a squad. Pilot and Crewman kits accrue individual points related to their kit. This means that you can stand around in the Main Base in a Pilot kit and accrue points.

 

2. Not sure about Squad pool points, but individual points accrued by Pilots and Crewmen disappear with them.

 

3. It's not like people are all that defensive with assets in PR currently, regardless of how limited they are. However, how a team utilizes their assets is up to them, and if a team uses their assets defensively and succeed, that shouldn't be an issue. If they fail, I don't think people will use them defensively for much longer.

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It's definetly a well thought suggestion and no doubt that we need more of those, so kudos to you.

 

However, this system promotes an 8 man pilot squad sitting at main and regenerating pilot points so that one jet pilot can get back in the air faster, rather than contributing actively on the battlefield. Also I'm worried that this system would discourage attacking play in general and instead promote heavy assets not supporting infantry on assaults etc. 

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However, this system promotes an 8 man pilot squad sitting at main and regenerating pilot points so that one jet pilot can get back in the air faster, rather than contributing actively on the battlefield. Also I'm worried that this system would discourage attacking play in general and instead promote heavy assets not supporting infantry on assaults etc. 

 

First of all, there is nothing about the PR system that doesn't promote the same behavior. Server rules ensure that half the team isn't standing in line in PR, along with the fact that it leads to certain defeat. Secondly, as I say in the last sentence in the OP, any kind of limitations can be imposed to avoid exactly that stuff. Don't want more than 4 main tanks? Set that hard limit, or make it a server option. Whatever.I can understand your last concern, but I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed with proper asset price balancing and asset availability.

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Hello Tartantyco , how about rethinking your system for it to use the tickets rather than special points  , so every purchase and every loss will bring consequences loss directly the ability of the team to stay on the field.

 

 

 

is a project that was in PR , the asset deployer .

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Ticket loss from asset loss would be a different system to this one, and one I expect will exist in Squad.

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You excel at assembling complex mechanisms of gameplay and organizing and presenting the material in an accessible manner.

There have been "asset purchase" mechanisms suggested before, and whereas those centered on the Commanding Officer and/or Squad Leaders purchasing and allocating units, yours allocates the resources directly to the players, so that players determine what they want to acquire, correct?

The biggest thing that I am concerned with is the allocation of points to crewmen and pilots necessitating occupation of that role. The idea of having 2-8 people in pilot kits sitting at base waiting for enough points to buy an A-10 is the same sort of nonsense as in BF3 where people camp the vehicle respawns. Just because its already happening doesnt justify its occurence, especially if we are designing a mechanism from the ground up that has the potential for solving this problem.

I didnt see anything on initial points values, either. I can make assumptions on your intended implementation, but assumptions fail often, so I would be interested to understand what you might already have envisioned in this regard. RE: Pilots; how do they become pilots, how many points do they start off with, etc etc.

If individuals are solely capable of selecting their role in the battlefield independent of the CO, what do you see as the CO's primary role in the game? How well do you expect indiduals (pilots, crewmen) to coordinate their purchases with other purchases for effect? Do you feel this system is going to resolve to teamwork and coordination of assets more frequently than the Commander-Acquired asset systems that have been suggested previously?

No doubt you are aware I have some concerns about supporting this implementation, but I applaud the out-of-box thinking, and perhaps the clarification will resolve some of these concerns.

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No, PR doesn't have points in that way, it was unique in that type of game (compared to certain Arcady ArmA missions) and it isn't realistic. Please no.

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There have been "asset purchase" mechanisms suggested before, and whereas those centered on the Commanding Officer and/or Squad Leaders purchasing and allocating units, yours allocates the resources directly to the players, so that players determine what they want to acquire, correct?

 

Partly. Pilot and Crewman assets are individual. Lighter assets, like trucks and jeeps are requested from a squad pool by the squad leader.

 

The biggest thing that I am concerned with is the allocation of points to crewmen and pilots necessitating occupation of that role. The idea of having 2-8 people in pilot kits sitting at base waiting for enough points to buy an A-10 is the same sort of nonsense as in BF3 where people camp the vehicle respawns. Just because its already happening doesnt justify its occurence, especially if we are designing a mechanism from the ground up that has the potential for solving this problem.

 

 

I think this is more a server admin thing, but you could also have hard limits, map-based limits, CO-set limits, or ISKLR determined limits that restrict how many pilots or crewmen there can be. Or you can have asset restrictions, so that you can only have one A-10 active at a time, only two jets, only four tanks, those kinds of map-based restrictions or whatever. Again, there's no limits on this kind of stuff in PR, it's avoided because of server rules. I don't mind people staying at main, waiting for assets to spawn. That's kind of their punishment for losing their asset. If too many do it, it's kickin' time.

 

I just don't think there's any good way of solving that issue, simply because it's too circumstantial. Sometimes you need two pilots, other times you need six. Let the admins deal with it.

 

I didnt see anything on initial points values, either. I can make assumptions on your intended implementation, but assumptions fail often, so I would be interested to understand what you might already have envisioned in this regard. RE: Pilots; how do they become pilots, how many points do they start off with, etc etc.

 

 

I avoided putting in any specific values as people always get way to caught up in that, as if I could provide balanced values with an entirely theoretical system. As a rough estimate, heavy air assets like jets and gunships would be most expensive to keep them least prevalent on the battlefield. Then you have heavy armor, medium armor like APCs, IFVs, followed by light air assets, trucks and jeeps. Roughly.

 

As for the second part, you become a pilot by joining a squad and selecting the Pilot kit. Sure, the entire team could pick a Pilot kit and stand around at main all day, but A) nobody's having fun, and they're outcapped in 5 minutes, match over, and B) Admin kickin' time! The only thing I worry about is people using Pilot/Crewman kits in normal combat to rack up points while waiting, but I've got a couple of things in the system to account for that, and it's a little dependent on the design of those loadouts.

 

If individuals are solely capable of selecting their role in the battlefield independent of the CO, what do you see as the CO's primary role in the game? How well do you expect indiduals (pilots, crewmen) to coordinate their purchases with other purchases for effect? Do you feel this system is going to resolve to teamwork and coordination of assets more frequently than the Commander-Acquired asset systems that have been suggested previously?

 

 

I'm just not a fan of any system that puts the CO in control of assets in any way. It leads to abuse and favoritism. Because the CO is one person, you can't concentrate too much hard power in that position. As for purchase coordination, at some point you just have to let it be resolved by the players' willingness to cooperate. I certainly don't think that a CO-focused system would do anything to resolve the issue.

 

No, PR doesn't have points in that way, it was unique in that type of game (compared to certain Arcady ArmA missions) and it isn't realistic. Please no.

 

PR didn't have weapon sway, either. Guess that's a no-go to now, as well. And what does "realistic" have to do with anything here? How is spawning realistic? How is vehicles spawning based on a timer realistic? No, "realistic" has no relevance here.

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Partly. Pilot and Crewman assets are individual. Lighter assets, like trucks and jeeps are requested from a squad pool by the squad leader.

I think this is more a server admin thing, but you could also have hard limits, map-based limits, CO-set limits, or ISKLR determined limits that restrict how many pilots or crewmen there can be. Or you can have asset restrictions, so that you can only have one A-10 active at a time, only two jets, only four tanks, those kinds of map-based restrictions or whatever. Again, there's no limits on this kind of stuff in PR, it's avoided because of server rules. I don't mind people staying at main, waiting for assets to spawn. That's kind of their punishment for losing their asset. If too many do it, it's kickin' time.

I just don't think there's any good way of solving that issue, simply because it's too circumstantial. Sometimes you need two pilots, other times you need six. Let the admins deal with it.

I avoided putting in any specific values as people always get way to caught up in that, as if I could provide balanced values with an entirely theoretical system. As a rough estimate, heavy air assets like jets and gunships would be most expensive to keep them least prevalent on the battlefield. Then you have heavy armor, medium armor like APCs, IFVs, followed by light air assets, trucks and jeeps. Roughly.

As for the second part, you become a pilot by joining a squad and selecting the Pilot kit. Sure, the entire team could pick a Pilot kit and stand around at main all day, but A) nobody's having fun, and they're outcapped in 5 minutes, match over, and B) Admin kickin' time! The only thing I worry about is people using Pilot/Crewman kits in normal combat to rack up points while waiting, but I've got a couple of things in the system to account for that, and it's a little dependent on the design of those loadouts.

I'm just not a fan of any system that puts the CO in control of assets in any way. It leads to abuse and favoritism. Because the CO is one person, you can't concentrate too much hard power in that position. As for purchase coordination, at some point you just have to let it be resolved by the players' willingness to cooperate. I certainly don't think that a CO-focused system would do anything to resolve the issue.

PR didn't have weapon sway, either. Guess that's a no-go to now, as well. And what does "realistic" have to do with anything here? How is spawning realistic? How is vehicles spawning based on a timer realistic? No, "realistic" has no relevance here.

Point based respawns' are similar to Counter-Strike's buy mechanic, where winners keep getting more inertia, and goes towards a unlock based Battlefield 3-esque system where teamwork matters less then what tanks you have available.

I'm all for asymmetric warfare, just not like this. If you've ever played PR, then you'd know that points don't mean a good player/squad. This is worse then an unlock system, as you need x points for x.

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Warthog, for the love of god, read my actual suggestion. I'm not talking about points as in "10 points per kill". Your criticisms aren't even related to the system I've laid out.

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Unfrail, I forgot to mention that currently all players would start with 0 accrued points. I'm thinking that if there was an active planning phase, people would accrue points while spawned during that phase, so that they have enough points to buy low-tier assets like trucks, jeeps, trans choppers and the like.

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Updated to add the Carried Negative Penalty function and a graph using example values to show how the mechanisms function in practice.

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I understand some of the problems here .....

Selecting who gets an asset is currently decided by who is first there to jump into it...

Right? So in a points system only people who got enough points will get one therby

Giving an asset to someone who theoretically has the right and obligation to purchase

That asset......what is going to force them to do so? They may not want to play that kit.

Or they may not be in a base to get asset....which then means the asset is not being

Deployed when it should be right?

So I suggest.....if asset gets lost.....it remains lost until all vehicles that spawn are lost

Then all assets respawn simultaneous again as if reinforcements have arrived...and

Its first come to get assets again....like war happens in waves of reinforcements

Right?

And this is realistic battle....right?

Just my thoughts think as you will....

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I understand some of the problems here .....

Selecting who gets an asset is currently decided by who is first there to jump into it...

Right? So in a points system only people who got enough points will get one therby

Giving an asset to someone who theoretically has the right and obligation to purchase

That asset......what is going to force them to do so? They may not want to play that kit.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you rephrase?

 

Pilots and Crewmen will accrue points specific to their asset types into an individual pool to expend on that type of asset, while everyone else accrue Squad points for the squad they're part of, that the Squad Leader can use to purchase squad assets(Jeeps, Trucks, Boats, etc.).

 

If you want to be a Transport Chopper pilot, you get a Pilot kit. When that kit is equipped, you start accruing Pilot points. These can be expended to purchase assets that require the Pilot kit(Transport Chopper, for instance). You don't gain any other points resource during this time. A player with a Medic kit will not be accruing any points that allows him to purchase Tanks or Gunships while he's playing. A player needs to have the Pilot or Crewman kit equipped to gain those points.

 

So I suggest.....if asset gets lost.....it remains lost until all vehicles that spawn are lost

Then all assets respawn simultaneous again as if reinforcements have arrived...and

Its first come to get assets again....like war happens in waves of reinforcements

Right?

 

 

This could open up for a lot of potential griefing, and would seriously disincentivize asset conservation. If every asset except one Jeep is lost, the entire team is denied access to any new assets until that Jeep is destroyed. This would allow griefers to stash vehicles with the intent of blocking asset respawns. The CAS squad that's kept an Apache alive for 30 minutes also suddenly becomes a liability for the rest of the team, as their continued survival blocks new asset spawns.

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I meant to mean all assets that fire weapons like tanks, planes, and artillery would

Have to lost before respawn.....not jeeps or transport with

Mgs mounted on them.....sorry Im on phone here typing

One key at a time cant specify everything I wish to..

I guess Im not fully understanding how a points system

Would work as you descibed it....is it for keeping teams

Always balanced when they lose an asset or for letting

The team who is winning on the battlefield prevent the other

Team from buying or getting new reinforcements because. They

Didnt get no points to buy them?

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Yes. I thought of thr lone vehicle staying alive despite loss of other vehicles......and this would

Only occur if opposing team was down to a one remaining asset as well which means

Teams are still balanced. .....and they will tend to remain so because as soon as one team loses

Last asset they get a full wave of reinforcements...taking out other teams remaining asset and

Causing their full wave of reinforcements...

Also indicators would be on your screen as to how many major assets are

Left and what wave of reinforcement your team is on compared to your

Opposing teams assets to give you idea whos got upperhand...

Raises other issues im sure but could be tried in experimental battles..

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I meant to mean all assets that fire weapons like tanks, planes, and artillery would

Have to lost before respawn.....not jeeps or transport with

Mgs mounted on them.....sorry Im on phone here typing

One key at a time cant specify everything I wish to..

 

Well, the problem would still remain. If a team gets 3 tanks and loses 2, they are better off losing 1 more than trying to conserve it. 

 

I guess Im not fully understanding how a points system

Would work as you descibed it....is it for keeping teams

Always balanced when they lose an asset or for letting

The team who is winning on the battlefield prevent the other

Team from buying or getting new reinforcements because. They

Didnt get no points to buy them?

 

 

The "points" part of the system seems to confuse a lot of people. It doesn't mean points as in "10 points per kill". It's a flat and universal resource. All players gain 60 points per minute. For Pilots and Crewmen, those points are stored in an individual pool, and the Pilots and Crewmen themselves can use those points to buy an asset. For everyone else, the points go in their squad's shared pool, and can be used by the Squad Leader. At any point, when a player is alive, he is gaining points. I think it is best described through a couple of examples:

 

I make an infantry squad. I get 4 squad members. My squad is now a total of 5 members. All of them are infantry(No Pilots, no Crewmen). When we are all spawned in, the squad generated 300 points per minute, which is added to the squad pool. As the squad leader, I can use these points to buy squad assets. I want to buy a Humvee so that my squad can have a mobile platform. This costs 2000 points. As my squad generates 300 ppm, it will take 6 1/2 minutes for my squad to have gained this amount. After that time, I can buy one in a Purchase Area(Main Base, for instance). That's the basics.

 

However, there's also some after-purchase stuff to take into consideration. If that Humvee is destroyed just 2 minutes after it was purchased, my squad will take a penalty of 9 times the original cost of the Humvee. The Points Loss function slams us with a -18000 points penalty. It would now take my squad 60 minutes just to get back to zero.

 

On the other hand, if we were to lose the Humvee after 3 minutes, the penalty would only be 2 times the original cost, or -4000. If the Humvee is lost after 10 minutes, the penalty is only -400. The point of this is to block access to assets for those who grief or waste assets.

 

Then there's Pilots and Crewmen. They gain individual points into kit specific pools. So, I join a Transport Squad and equip a Pilot kit. The moment I spawn, I start getting points in my Pilot pool at the rate of 60 per minute. I want a Blackhawk, which costs 300 points. This means I have to wait 5 minutes to have enough to buy the Blackhawk.  The same Points Loss function applies here, too. Crash the chopper straight off the helipad and you're slammed with a x10 penalty. Lose it after 10 minutes, get a x0.2 penalty.

 

The Active Asset Delay works to even out points accumulation issues between players using low-cost, low-risk assets vs. those using high-cost, high-risk assets. It's shown in the comparison between the blue and teal functions in the graph above. It also helps to balance out teams, so that the side losing the most assets gets a slight nudge in terms of regaining points to more quickly access assets again.

 

Players wanting access to high-tier assets like Tanks and Gunships in a reasonable amount of time also have to pool their points with other players. For instance, a Pilot wanting to fly an Apache can combine his points with another Pilot's points to buy it. On his own, he would have to wait 20 minutes for gain enough points, but with another player they only have to wait 10 minutes. This fosters teamwork and cooperation, as they share their resources and the responsibilities if the asset is lost.

 

As a final example, let's consider a Mech Inf squad. 8 squad members, 6 of them infantry(Including SL), 2 of them Crewmen. The 6 infantry players generate 360 ppm to the squad pool, while the Crewman generate nothing. Instead, the Crewmen both generate 60 ppm to their individual Crewman pools. At the instruction of their SL, the two crewmen combine their pools and buy a M2 Bradley. It costs 900 Crewman points, so they have to wait 7 1/2 minutes before they have enough points. Individually, they would have had to wait 15 minutes.  The Squad Leader also uses his squad pool points to buy a Logistics Truck. As it costs 300 Squad points, it takes 8 1/3 minutes before they have enough points. All the Points Loss, Active Asset Delays, etc., are still in effect, punishing asset waste and rewarding conservation.

 

The point of this system is to fix the issue with the scramble for assets at the start, avoid asset reservation issues, properly distribute responsibility, and limit asset waste and griefing, while providing teams with far greater flexibility when it comes to choosing and accessing assets. Players can build squads more freely, and react to the battlefield situation with the appropriate assets.

 

(Don't take the values, prices, and stuff in this post too seriously. It's just to explain the system.)

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Im just responding to the tank quote here...

If you got 3 tanks and lose 2 and you see on your hud

That opposing team has just been reinforced with 3

New tanks....yes you would tend to just scuddle the tank

So you could get your teams 3 new tanks too, but

Alternatively....depending on where your teams other

Assets are and the ticket spread.....your team is most

Likely winning because the other team still has to get

Their reinforcements to front lines....so maybe your lone

Tank is still at the front with all the flags taken and now

Needs to get to rear to defend the first flag the enemy

Is about to attack....which he does and swiftly is taken out

Due to he is outnumbered....and now his teams reinforcements

Are initialized and the battle drags on....

Another incentive to stop scuttling of last asset maybe

By flag captures....you could limit reinforcements if

All flags are captured and so your team wins waiting for

Opposing teams tickets to expire....which currently happens

And opposing teams assets are trying to break out of main

Base to get a flag....because main bases are not flag points

Of capture....

But if flags are equal and your on last tank and opposing

Team got reinforced......there's. Nothing wrong with scuttling

Last asset.....and if it was a realistic scenerio I think in reality

Historically armies have scuttled last assets when retreating

On the battlefield....til they could get a reinforcing army to

Come back and retake that territory....scuttling

Is a tactic of war.....

Cheers...

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Let's say everybody knows about the pointsystem and the penalty system.

It wouldnt stop griefers, it would make everything worse and stop good squads from being effective.

 

What i see is going to happen with that system: everybody waiting in mainbase for some points, buying a vehicle, waiting for the penalty system to not punish as much, drive to the front.

 

In your example that would be like 15 minutes or so until a squad might go out.

 

Another example: I have a full squad (9 including me), i can afford an armored hmmwv, going to the front with it, we hit a well placed ied, everything is dead. Now i cant get anything for the next 30-60 minutes?

 

Why dont we have the same system for infantry spawn times? If you are 30 minutes alive you just need 1 minute to respawn, if you die after 1 minute you have to wait 60 minutes to respawn?

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Elirah, absolutely none of that is at all true.

 

It wouldnt stop griefers, it would make everything worse and stop good squads from being effective.

 

 

Give me an example, using the mechanisms of my system, that substantiates this claim. How are good squads stopped from being effective? How does the system not stop griefers(Beyond what other systems can)?

 

What i see is going to happen with that system: everybody waiting in mainbase for some points, buying a vehicle, waiting for the penalty system to not punish as much, drive to the front.

 

 

Why would people be waiting at main? You don't have to stay there to gain points. You gain them at any time when you're not down or dead. And what server would be allowing this kind of behavior? Not to mention, you're forgetting various asset restrictions that would be imposed.

 

In your example that would be like 15 minutes or so until a squad might go out.

 

 

Uhhh, no. It would take the Infantry squad 6 1/2 minutes, the Mech Inf squad 8 1/3 minutes. And that is assuming that the prices that I used purely as an example are remotely viable. It also doesn't include a planning stage in which points can be gained, meaning many assets would be available at start.

 

Another example: I have a full squad (9 including me), i can afford an armored hmmwv, going to the front with it, we hit a well placed ied, everything is dead. Now i cant get anything for the next 30-60 minutes?

 

 

You'd be hard pressed to lose an asset in a time that  would penalize you that hard unless you were wasting it intentionally or through incompetence, or because of connection issues(Which would only really apply to Air assets). You'd spend a minute just getting your squad into the Humvee, you should be nowhere near an enemy by the time you only get a x2 or x1 penalty multiplier. And you don't have to wait to be able to purchase a new asset to get anywhere. Transport and Logistics squads still exist.

 

It would be advantageous for you to understand the system before trying to criticize it. If there's something you don't understand, just ask a question instead of being so combative. It is hardly conducive to a good discussion.

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I dont need a minute to get my squad into the HMMWV.

 

What i was thinking is that if i know the penalty system, i would just wait to get out of main. With that waiting time i have to wait 6 1/2 minutes to get enough points and another 10 minutes to get minumum penalty.

What is stopping me from waiting? An admin?

 

In PR, if you REALLY waste an asset ->warning ->kick ->ban. DONE.

 

With your system it would be the exact same, but with some strange point collecting system to buy things that are more complicated than usefull.

 

 

At which point do you stop people from wasting an asset? (What is asset waste? driving out of base into a well placed mine?)

Give me one example where this system is better than PR. 

 

 

BTW. just because i dont see your system working doesnt mean i dont understand it.

Also: "If there's something you don't understand, just ask a question instead of being so combative. It is hardly conducive to a good discussion."

 

If you say that live by that. You just told me I didn't understand, while you didn't understand what i was saying. But i rather think its language barrier than your ignorance.

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I dont need a minute to get my squad into the HMMWV.

 

That's because you've never timed how long it takes you to get your squad into your Humvee, or whatever vehicle you're using. Getting 9 people to do anything quickly is quite a logistical feat. When one of your guys has to go take a piss, or spilled his drink all over his desk, you'll suddenly find out how much of a time sink people can be. Just getting a player to go to the right Humvee, instead of trying to dry hump a Huey, can be a challenge at times.

 

What i was thinking is that if i know the penalty system, i would just wait to get out of main. With that waiting time i have to wait 6 1/2 minutes to get enough points and another 10 minutes to get minumum penalty.

What is stopping me from waiting? An admin?

 

 

What's stopping you is that it's boring, and nobody's going to be in your squad just so you can avoid a penalty that's inconsequential after a couple of minutes. It's not like you have squads standing in the main for minutes waiting for the Humvees to respawn in PR, even though there's nothing stopping them from doing that.

 

You need to construct arguments that make sense within the context of someone playing a game, not within the context of you trying to "game" my system based on a very rough understanding of how it works.

 

In PR, if you REALLY waste an asset ->warning ->kick ->ban. DONE. With your system it would be the exact same, but with some strange point collecting system to buy things that are more complicated than usefull.

 

 

I can tell that you've never admined a server. Yes, in obvious cases this system won't change anything. I've already stated as much. That's because they're obvious cases. The area where this system does work is in all the non-obvious cases, which is the majority of cases a server admin deals with. While I expect the admin tools and information access to drastically improve in Squad, a substantial portion of a server admin's work is related to subjective information. You don't know how long an asset was active before it was lost, meaning you can't immediately tell if it's griefing, asset waste, or just an accident. At this point, if you have a PR system, nothing is stopping that griefer or asset waster from spawning back in and getting his hands on another asset while the server admins are just trying to get a grasp on the situation. With my system, those players are automatically blocked from accessing more assets, while players who have conserved their assets for just a few minutes may be delayed or suffer no real setback.

 

They are also blocked by virtue of having to wait for assets. It is the immediate access to access that the PR system allows, that lets griefers and asset wasters have such a substantial impact when they succeed. You can get on a server, join a squad, run up to an already spawned Gunship and crash it within a minute. And due to PR's asset system, that loss significantly impairs the team's ability to win. With my system, a griefer actually has to wait to get an asset. A long time if it's a high-tier asset.

 

The information the system generates also helps to provide server admins with the ability to identify problem players efficiently, without the subjective feedback of players.

 

At which point do you stop people from wasting an asset? (What is asset waste? driving out of base into a well placed mine?)

Give me one example where this system is better than PR.

 

 

Stops the initial mad scramble for assets that leads to half the squads having to re-think their plans.

 

Eliminates asset reservation issues, especially when it comes to AFV and Mech Inf squads squabbling over the same assets.

 

Eliminates issues where one squad abandoning a vehicle somewhere blocks the asset from respawning, affecting the entire team.

 

Rewards asset conservation, punishes asset waste.

 

Allows squad leaders to organize their squads around specific assets without the inherent PR issues like asset scrambles and asset reservations.

 

Encourages more responsible play as individual players and squads are penalized by delayed or blocked access to assets, instead of the team as a whole.

 

Consequently reduces the impact griefers and asset wasters have on games, as their individual actions do not cause team wide asset delays.

 

I could go on, but you asked for one and I gave you seven.

 

BTW. just because i dont see your system working doesnt mean i dont understand it.

 

 

The reason why I know you don't understand it is because you've said things that are explicitly false.

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