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Some context from those who want lower recoil particularly on full auto would be useful.

How long a burst are you firing? How far is your target?

Dependent on that context it does sound like some want to pick and choose their realism based on how it affects their ablity to get kills rather than how appropriately realistic something is or how it fts into gameplay.

Ridiculously low (and I argue unrealistic) recoil with this damage isn't a pretty thought.

Full auto ar's at close range work fine, almost too well. At medium range they are less effective. That's realistic.

the recoil is unrealistically high so I don't really see your point

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but you have no body here , no adrenalin thats make trembling hands,And you have not the cover here from a real world. the ground in the game is very flat.  no big fear.

 

when you make a bf recoil here than has you that stupid shot and kill .   the fire fights go to boring bang banb all dead.  the little harder recoil make a good job here. gives a nice mix when the bullets flying around you, that give a spezial touch in the game immersion. with an lower recoil it is completely get lost. And you have not the cover here from a real world. the ground in the game is very flat.

 

find a good position /go hide go slow / use little valleys / stand or lay down not on tops / move as the water flows / stand still / looking that is a tree behind you, break your silhouette against the sky.  and shot more single shots and with the lmg more short fire bursts - that's the whole magic. win the match with your team and the target is not - the highest kill rate.

 

your task in squad with an lmg is hold down enemy. so the gunners with rifles can make here job. NOT MORE !!  Not one learn - shot autofire with your lmg and make kills kills kills :)

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Yup. You say unrealistically high yet provide no evidence as to why you think that. Is it just opinon, dislike, how much recoil would be right? It's a worthless comment on its own.

It being opinion is fine of course but without stating why you think that the statement adds exactly zero to the debate.

Guns go bang and they recoil. If they go bang a lot, quickly they recoil a lot. So the question is really how much. To determine that you need context amongst other things.

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Sorry to disagree but he's still an extremely experienced shooter who clearly has more knowledge than most from actual active duty. The point was the demonstration of the firing modes. I didnt see any product placement in that video, did you? Admittedly his videos are rife with it, along with a 100 other youtubers I could cite who also have a great deal of experience. 11 years in CAG/Delta, I'd wager his put more rounds down rane than most on these forums.

 

Yeah, and I've been shooting all types of firearms since I was two years old, so what does that make me? As Larry's knowledge, a lot of it is definitely well, but knowledge doesn't translate to experience. I could talk up a storm all day about all sorts of guns but at the end of the day there are still some guns that I've never touched and have no experience with. As for product placement, no, that's just another flaw of his. However, Larry Vicker's is a horrible citation for being a soldier. The dude is old as dirty and is grossly obese (something he has made excuses for.) No shit he can't control a select fire weapon because he's not in shape. Yeah, he might have been in CAG/Delta and he's definitely respectable enough for that, but that doesn't mean he's a respectable source for this shit in his current position.

 

Great example: Sonny Puzikas was a Spetsnaz operative for how fucking long? Doesn't mean his training techniques are anything more than hogwash and doesn't mean that he's a master firearms instructor.

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You base this on what?

 

 

Yup. You say unrealistically high yet provide no evidence as to why you think that. Is it just opinon, dislike, how much recoil would be right? It's a worthless comment on its own.

It being opinion is fine of course but without stating why you think that the statement adds exactly zero to the debate.

Guns go bang and they recoil. If they go bang a lot, quickly they recoil a lot. So the question is really how much. To determine that you need context amongst other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gm_VfMUAEw

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LOL, a youtube video that doesn't even show the target. Useless. This game allows you to counter recoil just like that guy did.

 

I've actually shot both AK and M4 platforms as well as a multitude of 9mm parabellum and larger caliber pistols. Unfortunately I have never shot 9x18mm Makarov. The recoil is pretty spot on. What is misleading is your body/grip counteracting recoil. But since this is a video game and not real life we get to use a mouse instead of a certain stance and hand grips.

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The game features no tilting and other faulty sight alignments, so recoil is emphasized in order to have at least a bit of shooting skill involved. A lot of people don't seem to understand that it is not possible to model the handling of an actual firearm with just a mouse. So unless you want to take the route of having a proper firearm handling simulation with quick time events and what not, I suggest you deal with the increased recoil as a substitute for all the other handling quirks involved in a real firearm.

 

If you can think of a QTE that would occur while shooting and I can guarantee you I'd probably be fine with it. I'm not going to deal with bullshit levels of muzzle climb because nobody can think of a better, easier way to do it.

 

Ridiculously low (and I argue unrealistic) recoil with this damage isn't a pretty thought.

 

Once again, ever fired a rifle? Ever fired an AR? There's damn near no muzzle climb.

 

 

but you have no body here , no adrenalin thats make trembling hands,And you have not the cover here from a real world. the ground in the game is very flat.  no big fear.

 

when you make a bf recoil here than has you that stupid shot and kill .   the fire fights go to boring bang banb all dead.  the little harder recoil make a good job here. gives a nice mix when the bullets flying around you, that give a spezial touch in the game immersion. with an lower recoil it is completely get lost. And you have not the cover here from a real world. the ground in the game is very flat.

 

find a good position /go hide go slow / use little valleys / stand or lay down not on tops / move as the water flows / stand still / looking that is a tree behind you, break your silhouette against the sky.  and shot more single shots and with the lmg more short fire bursts - that's the whole magic. win the match with your team and the target is not - the highest kill rate.

 

your task in squad with an lmg is hold down enemy. so the gunners with rifles can make here job. NOT MORE !!  Not one learn - shot autofire with your lmg and make kills kills kills :)

 

You're right that you have no body, and you're right that you have no adrenaline and your hands aren't shaking (something that you're probably not going to notice in the heat of the moment anyway.) Cover is just something to lean your weapon upon and really only helps tame recoil. 

 

Now, do I think no recoil is the solution? No, but then again neither is Counter Strike-tier recoil. It's absolutely absurd the way weapons recoil in this game. It gives no in game immersion and if you've ever shot a gun it does nothing but break immersion because you KNOW that nobody in their right minds would make it into the military if they can't tame such minuscule recoil. 

 

You base this on what?

 

I can tell you now that I base it on personal experience. I own an AR, my AK is waiting to be picked up at the gun shop as we speak and I've shot the select fire variants of both of them before and have put thousands of rounds if not tens of thousands of rounds through each platform in my lifetime. I base it on that, what do you base your beliefs on?

 

Yup. You say unrealistically high yet provide no evidence as to why you think that. Is it just opinon, dislike, how much recoil would be right? It's a worthless comment on its own.

It being opinion is fine of course but without stating why you think that the statement adds exactly zero to the debate.

Guns go bang and they recoil. If they go bang a lot, quickly they recoil a lot. So the question is really how much. To determine that you need context amongst other things.

 

Look above because while he might not have anything to base his beliefs on I damn sure do. How much recoil would be right? Different for each rifle. ARs have very little muzzle rise and recoil, but AKMs tend to move a bit up and to the right (which is why the slant brake was invented in the first place, but unfortunately it does not completely tame recoil.) 

 

LOL, a youtube video that doesn't even show the target. Useless. This game allows you to counter recoil just like that guy did.

 

I've actually shot both AK and M4 platforms as well as a multitude of 9mm parabellum and larger caliber pistols. Unfortunately I have never shot 9x18mm Makarov. The recoil is pretty spot on. What is misleading is your body/grip counteracting recoil. But since this is a video game and not real life we get to use a mouse instead of a certain stance and hand grips.

 

The problem with your statement is that because it is a video game it is assumed that the soldiers carrying these weapons in a war zone are properly trained on their stances and everything. Now, maybe in the Polish Army or wherever you learned to shoot this would be considered acceptable levels of recoil, but I can guarantee you that if your weapon rises as much as it does in this game then you'd get a swift ass kicking for improper firearms handing in the US Military or hell, even at a range. The way recoil is handled in this game is piss poor.

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Once again, ever fired a rifle? Ever fired an AR? There's damn near no muzzle climb.

Alright range warrior calm your 5.11 pants. You know very well that 'AR' is in all reality quite an ambiguous umbrella term when it comes to the different kinds of AR15s people put together.

I feel like if someone untrained and unaware of how the direct impingement system actually works had their sole experience with an AR that was something some fudd put together with a 7.5 inch barrel and an SB15 Sig Pistol brace (before the ATF issued their most recent ruling on it) and nothing in terms of a muzzle device to help mitigate muzzle climb... then id wager they probably would think an AR15 has a noticeable amount.

Now, a mid length gas system + a 14.5" or even 16" barrel + a quality muzzle brake like the SFMB556, thats an entirely different story and indeed the muzzle climb would arguably be negligible at best.

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Can we talk about M4A1s and AKM/74s here? As in the weapons depicted in Squad? The recoil on a standard M4A1 with a birdcage flash suppressor is very controllable. Hell, I've mag dumped CAR-15s and M4A1s on 25 meter targets and managed to score most of my hits on a man sized green Ivan targets without much effort. Same thing when fam firing AKMs and 74s. M249 is hard to control standing, but if you fire it prone with the bipod deployed you can belt dump accurately without much effort. Squad should reflect this without trying to retool the weapons for some rock paper scissors level of artificial balance.

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-snip-

You need to step off bro. You aren't the only here that owns and shoots weapons. In reference to the youtube video I commented about. I find it useless without seeing the target because we don't get to see how wildly he is throwing lead down range and make no mistake because it is probably going all over the place so while that soldier looks all neat and pretty, without seeing his target and looking down his sight aperture the video is useless.

 

You want to keep your rifle level while firing full auto in game? Guess what, you can! But YOU, the PLAYER, have to do it! The game does not do it for you! But you are more than capable of firing full auto on target with the rifles in game. Its called recoil compensation. For someone with as much experience behind a rifle as you surely you understand that a shooter must counter muzzle climb/drift?

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I like higher recoil, I actually believe the recoil for some weapons should be even higher. It slows down the pacing of firefights, and it makes you think about shooting a whole bunch of guys when you're by yourself. It also removes the twitch-shooter like play styling, that low recoil will induce. With higher recoil, players will be encouraged to maneuver closer to the enemy before/while engaging, encouraging flanking tactics and covering/suppressive fire. Fire discipline will also be an important factor, which (by all means, correct me if I am wrong) is also an essential element of engagement in IRL too.

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Alright range warrior calm your 5.11 pants. You know very well that 'AR' is in all reality quite an ambiguous umbrella term when it comes to the different kinds of AR15s people put together.

I feel like if someone untrained and unaware of how the direct impingement system actually works had their sole experience with an AR that was something some fudd put together with a 7.5 inch barrel and an SB15 Sig Pistol brace (before the ATF issued their most recent ruling on it) and nothing in terms of a muzzle device to help mitigate muzzle climb... then id wager they probably would think an AR15 has a noticeable amount.

Now, a mid length gas system + a 14.5" or even 16" barrel + a quality muzzle brake like the SFMB556, thats an entirely different story and indeed the muzzle climb would arguably be negligible at best.

 

Oh, a moderator breaking out the insults? Man, ain't that hilarious. Yeah, AR is indeed a family of weapons that can come in all shapes and sizes but anyone who's not a moron should know that in this situation the only thing we should be speaking about is real and true milspec M4s or M4-styled AR-15s. As for your next statement, the AR is Stoner Gas, not direct impingement, but whatever because commonality. Next, you're using fudd wrong; the word you're probably looking for in this situation would be tacticool kiddie or some shit like that. Third, the most recent ruling has absolutely no way of being enforced. The way they wrote it states that shouldering the SB15 manufactures a rifle, which would fall apart on the first day in court. 

 

Now, to get to the REAL issue with your statement? Yeah, any untrained shooter would think that ANY gun has a lot of recoil, but in game it is assumed that you're at the very least a professional soldier when fighting for the US Army and Russia or a battle hardened fighter when you're on Militia or the Taliban. Are you seriously going to tell me that you're comparing any of these groups to someone with no training? As it stands, the recoil in game might as well be new shooter-tier on a no MD/SB15/7.5" build. As for what what you listed, that's decently close to the ideal setup, but the problem with that is once again that's not what's in game. What's in game is a 14.5" M4Awith a standard A2 birdcage and carbine gas system. It's as simple as it gets and it has damn near no recoil. Is there still some muzzle climb? Sure. Is there still some recoil? Yeah. However, in game it is highly exaggerated.

 

Squad should reflect this without trying to retool the weapons for some rock paper scissors level of artificial balance.

 

This. There shouldn't be tons of recoil added to the guns in game to make firefights in this game only viable at low speed and under 50m. Honestly, I much preferred PR's way of determining accuracy. Hell, even adding aiming deadzone would be better than the current situation.

 

You need to step off bro. You aren't the only here that owns and shoots weapons. In reference to the youtube video I commented about. I find it useless without seeing the target because we don't get to see how wildly he is throwing lead down range and make no mistake because it is probably going all over the place so while that soldier looks all neat and pretty, without seeing his target and looking down his sight aperture the video is useless.

 

You want to keep your rifle level while firing full auto in game? Guess what, you can! But YOU, the PLAYER, have to do it! The game does not do it for you! But you are more than capable of firing full auto on target with the rifles in game. Its called recoil compensation. For someone with as much experience behind a rifle as you surely you understand that a shooter must counter muzzle climb/drift?

 

First of all, I'm not your bro, so don't call me that. I'm not the only one who shoots and owns guns, yeah, but apparently I'm one of the few who actually knows how to shoot. Yeah, his video is shit, but you're completely wrong in your belief that the recoil in game is anywhere near accurate. 

 

I understand what you're saying, but you don't apparently understand what I'm saying: I've got not problem controlling recoil for myself, what I do have a problem with is the fact that a single fucking round rockets the gun halfway toward the skybox. It's beyond all reason. 

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Lots of points - just remember this though lads, the recoil helps maintain some resemblance of 'balance' here between real world and some 'fun enjoyable gameplay'.

Yes some of the recoil in some of the weapons here is a bit over the top (hitting anything past 100m with full auto is a mean feat after the 2nd or 3rd round in the standing unsupported position though). I can also probably assume that a lot who have dumped mags have done so in uncontrolled environments without scoring systems or proper patched out targets. Hell, even with a SAW prone with a bipod, if you're shooting full auto at a 'prone sized target' at 100m, only a small handful of rounds will actually 'strike' the target. Yes it may feel like you're nailing it, it may seem like you're able to maintain a sight picture, but the effect down range tells it all.

And yes some people can manage recoil better than others, but we should be talking about the 'average' soldier as this game is based around it. Not on some SF bloke who has range time every week.

I ponder you this, if you want a more 'easily managed recoil' system, will you be the first ones on the forums complaining that weapons are unbalanced? Remember, if you get better recoil mitigation, so does the guys shooting back at you.

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Lots of points - just remember this though lads, the recoil helps maintain some resemblance of 'balance' here between real world and some 'fun enjoyable gameplay'.

Yes some of the recoil in some of the weapons here is a bit over the top (hitting anything past 100m with full auto is a mean feat after the 2nd or 3rd round in the standing unsupported position though). I can also probably assume that a lot who have dumped mags have done so in uncontrolled environments without scoring systems or proper patched out targets. Hell, even with a SAW prone with a bipod, if you're shooting full auto at a 'prone sized target' at 100m, only a small handful of rounds will actually 'strike' the target. Yes it may feel like you're nailing it, it may seem like you're able to maintain a sight picture, but the effect down range tells it all.

And yes some people can manage recoil better than others, but we should be talking about the 'average' soldier as this game is based around it. Not on some SF bloke who has range time every week.

I ponder you this, if you want a more 'easily managed recoil' system, will you be the first ones on the forums complaining that weapons are unbalanced? Remember, if you get better recoil mitigation, so does the guys shooting back at you.

 

I understand that recoil is necessary to maintain balance, but at this point it's does less for balance and really just hinders gameplay in my opinion. 

 

Of course putting a mag on target at 100m is hard on full auto, but even on select fire recoil is extremely inhibitive and followup shots are impossible unless you're shooting less than a round every second (talking around 50m here, as that seems to be where the majority of in-game firefights take place.) As for firing select fire on the M249, you'd have to talk more to Yukari about that as he's the one with experience on the M249. 

 

Now, the part of your statement that irks me is that you're talking about the 'average' soldier. Now, I don't know about you, but in game your character appears to be far less than the 'average' soldier with his complete inability to tame recoil. Recoil is mostly a backward thing rather than an upward thing, and there are definitely ways to make it like that in game without making the weapon jump to the sky.

 

As for your last comment, no, I wouldn't complain about weapon imbalance unless it's something that's actually understandable. Most weapons in game kill in 1-2 hits anyway, but I believe that each gun should handle as they do in real life rather than just having stupid amounts of recoil. Great example: even with a slant brake, an AKM will still kick up and to the right a lot more than an AR kicks in any direction solely because of the mass of the bolt carrier moving back and forth (obviously when the bolt slams forward the AK mostly corrects itself.) However, because in-game there are ACOGs (and presumably they'll be available to all US soldiers again later in development) the recoil of the AR is less of a problem to physically tame and more of a problem with sight picture. Anyone who's been around an ACOG knows they're incredibly touchy to get eye relief with as well as to maintain a proper sight picture and, at least when I've shot with ACOGs (including my Ta-33) you definitely lose your sight picture for a split second when you fire. 

 

Little things like this can be added to the game that'll do a lot more to make aiming and killing a challenge than just making guns bounce everywhere.

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Geeze not another one of these threads.

The devs are not simulating real life. Squad is not a friggin simulator. Certain aspects of the game will deviate significantly from reality to bring upon a desired effect. In this case it decreases the range of firefights and prevents all guns from becoming laser beams.

Secondly, I don't even find it very difficult to control. I am betting that you guys are using a mouse sensitivity that is too high. Try adjusting your mouse sensitivity for a 14+ inch 360 turn radius

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I understand that recoil is necessary to maintain balance, but at this point it's does less for balance and really just hinders gameplay in my opinion.

*Stupid tapatalk

You seemed to be focusing on the guts of what I said instead of the start and end of my reply.

What I was basically saying is that it's a game, recoil will be added to add 'playability' and balance. And this isn't a simulator, more an arcade type game with semblances of realism.

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Can we talk about M4A1s and AKM/74s here? As in the weapons depicted in Squad? The recoil on a standard M4A1 with a birdcage flash suppressor is very controllable. Hell, I've mag dumped CAR-15s and M4A1s on 25 meter targets and managed to score most of my hits on a man sized green Ivan targets without much effort. Same thing when fam firing AKMs and 74s. M249 is hard to control standing, but if you fire it prone with the bipod deployed you can belt dump accurately without much effort. Squad should reflect this without trying to retool the weapons for some rock paper scissors level of artificial balance.

 

^^This^^ 100%.

 

The argument that the recoil needs to be bad and unrealistic for balancing is a bogus argument at its core. The people who say that is needed for balancing makes me wonder why you are even playing this game, this game IS a realistic, tactical shooter no matter how one wants to try and twist logic to say otherwise. Being that it is such the devs have removed the kill notifications and that is why there are no hit detectors or spotting or run and gun or bunny hopping and certainly why it only takes a few bullets no matter what gun was fired to make you dead. If all you want are the things mentioned and bad recoil then go play the "hardcore" version of BF4. With all that said the recoil needs to be fixed and also the sway of your sight when walking is ridiculous as well both the recoil and sight sway are too high at this time.

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Geeze not another one of these threads.

The devs are not simulating real life. Squad is not a friggin simulator. Certain aspects of the game will deviate significantly from reality to bring upon a desired effect. In this case it decreases the range of firefights and prevents all guns from becoming laser beams.

Secondly, I don't even find it very difficult to control. I am betting that you guys are using a mouse sensitivity that is too high. Try adjusting your mouse sensitivity for a 14+ inch 360 turn radius

 

You're right they're not simulating real life, but they're making a realistic tactical shooter and the notion that the game needs artificial difficulty to be fun is just stupid. 

 

Your second point is wholly wrong. My standard DPI is 2000 and usually when I'm aimed in I switch it down to around 600 and the recoil in this game when on semi auto and full auto is completely overblown and makes it very hard to get follow up shots, which matter quite a bit. 

 

*Stupid tapatalk

You seemed to be focusing on the guts of what I said instead of the start and end of my reply.

What I was basically saying is that it's a game, recoil will be added to add 'playability' and balance. And this isn't a simulator, more an arcade type game with semblances of realism.

 

Yeah, of course I am because the guts of an argument matter a whole lot more than the thesis and conclusion. Why would I read into the general idea and the wrap up rather than the meat of your statement? That in and of itself is incredibly stupid.

 

Recoil had not added playability in the slightest. As someone who loved Project Reality and as someone with lots of friends who loved PR I can tell you that many, many people are turned off by the unnecessary and overstated recoil. The game is far from arcade as well as far from simulator-status, but it's designed to be a tactical, realistic shooter and currently it's failing at realism and playability.

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Your second point is wholly wrong. My standard DPI is 2000 and usually when I'm aimed in I switch it down to around 600 and the recoil in this game when on semi auto and full auto is completely overblown and makes it very hard to get follow up shots, which matter quite a bit.

Respectfully, I'd say you just need to work on your skills. I don't seem to have the same problem you have.

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Respectfully, I'd say you just need to work on your skills. I don't seem to have the same problem you have.

 

I've been playing FPS games for years now and learning to play with bad mechanics is no excuse for having bad mechanics in the game. Make no mistake that I can indeed make followup shots, but it takes way longer than necessary and is way more difficult than it is in real life, which is something that is off putting for a tactical, realistic shooter. Put it this way: CS:S had some of the worst hit detection in any video game ever, but I was pretty damn good at it back when I played it every day. That doesn't make it acceptable to have bad hit boxes in an extremely competitive game just as being good at managing recoil doesn't make it excusable to have horrible recoil mechanics in Squad.

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I've been playing FPS games for years now and learning to play with bad mechanics is no excuse for having bad mechanics in the game. Make no mistake that I can indeed make followup shots, but it takes way longer than necessary and is way more difficult than it is in real life, which is something that is off putting for a tactical, realistic shooter. Put it this way: CS:S had some of the worst hit detection in any video game ever, but I was pretty damn good at it back when I played it every day. That doesn't make it acceptable to have bad hit boxes in an extremely competitive game just as being good at managing recoil doesn't make it excusable to have horrible recoil mechanics in Squad.

Fair enough. I agree it's not like real life but to make it model real life without adding other things in real life such as breathing control and wind, wouldn't guns become way too accurate and engagements would start moving out to hundreds of yards?

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Fair enough. I agree it's not like real life but to make it model real life without adding other things in real life such as breathing control and wind, wouldn't guns become way too accurate and engagements would start moving out to hundreds of yards?

 

Is the "focus" button not already somewhat an action of breathing control as well as zooming in a bit? Wind, on the other hand, is something that probably shouldn't be added just because wind would have to vary from map to map and because wind barely has any effect on a bullet at distances less than 300m. As for guns becoming too accurate, no? Guns still do have recoil and muzzle climb, it's just not anywhere near as blown out of proportion as it is in game. If you read my post earlier (#65) I talked about some ways to make sure that engagement distances don't increase too far because, in reality, prolonged long-range firefights aren't exactly something people want. Hell, even if they didn't add these mechanics you can bet that the majority of people would still want to move in close for an easier kill as well as for the thrill of CQB. 

 

Another way around this would be to redesign the maps. In Project Reality most maps were designed so that there was a good mix of long and close range fighting as well as a lot of room to advance toward the enemy even if they're fortified really well. A great map with fun long range combat is the CAD v RUS map (can't remember the name of it now) but it's got a lot of tall grass and fortified hills so that both teams can advance easily or sit back and take pot shots at each other.

 

Really at this point it's all about if they want to take the expedient route to keep combat close-medium range and fun or if they want to take their time and do it properly.

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If you can think of a QTE that would occur while shooting and I can guarantee you I'd probably be fine with it. I'm not going to deal with bullshit levels of muzzle climb because nobody can think of a better, easier way to do it.

 

But you see, they already thought of one a QTE: It's called "Pull your mouse down." This game isn't a simulator, nor does it strive to cater to whatever you personally deem as "realistic".

 

I can guarantee you they lose more players by overcomplexifying the ways guns behave than they would lose by encouraging people to learn to a) single shot on most occasions, b) fire controlled bursts or c) learn to control full auto recoil. And if you won't/can't deal with that, then I suggest you move on, because the Devs have made their stance abundantly clear.

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But you see, they already thought of one a QTE: It's called "Pull your mouse down." This game isn't a simulator, nor does it strive to cater to whatever you personally deem as "realistic".

 

I can guarantee you they lose more players by overcomplexifying the ways guns behave than they would lose by encouraging people to learn to a) single shot on most occasions, B) fire controlled bursts or c) learn to control full auto recoil. And if you won't/can't deal with that, then I suggest you move on, because the Devs have made their stance abundantly clear.

 

So what you basically did was create an incredibly horrible loaded question? Got it. This game is not a simulator, that's correct, but it does tout itself as realistic and my personal definition of realism doesn't matter that's correct, but apparently realism in no facet matters with the current state of recoil.

 

How is lowering recoil over-complexifying the issue? How is making recoil work properly overly-complex? I encourage single shot and fire in controlled bursts, but that doesn't mean a horribly designed recoil system isn't horrible. As for moving on, the answer to that is no. I'll continue to post about how crappy the recoil mechanic in this game is regardless of your feelings on my posts. If you don't like that, then maybe you should move on. 

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