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why do people keep saying "it's for balance"?

how does recoil have any effect on balance (besides the recoil between guns)?

Well common practice is to give higher damaging weapons more recoil or a lower fire rate. If two in game weapons had exact same stats with the exception of damage then the team that gets the higher damaging weapon would be said to have an advantage.

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I'd like to see the weapons and loadouts modelled as realistically as posssible (while still fitting in with it being a game and all) and not nerfing some weapon's stats to make it balanced. That way you get a different experience playing on each team and it's not just a change of camo, instead you have three teams having access to different loadouts and differing strengths/weaknesses requiring differing tactics. 

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Well common practice is to give higher damaging weapons more recoil or a lower fire rate. If two in game weapons had exact same stats with the exception of damage then the team that gets the higher damaging weapon would be said to have an advantage.

 

Yeah in really shitty arcade games. In a game like this where there are roles it shouldn't be about bullshit recoil and fire rates but about what is realistic.

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why do people keep saying "it's for balance"?

how does recoil have any effect on balance (besides the recoil between guns)?

 

Because recoil that is too low would result in engagements always happening at extreme ranges like in Arma, and those are boring. 

 

There is also a huge issue with representing recoil in video games because in reality shooting is a full body activity. I'm no expert and haven't shot a gun in a long time but it's not as easy as pointing a mouse and clicking, if it were then 99% of soldiers would die on the battlefield.

 

Come to think of it, the realistic capacity of a soldier is more important than the realism of interaction. If we want battles to play out in a fairly realistic way then we're going to have to settle with things like recoil being more abstracted than the cold hard statistics because those will never translate accurately into a video game without completely jeopardising the flow of the game.

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Because recoil that is too low would result in engagements always happening at extreme ranges like in Arma, and those are boring.

Hardly. Recoil hurts your followup shots. If you really wanted to make engagements at longer distances harder to successfully participate in you'd have to make the rifles sway like the shooter is a thirteen year old girl with a battle rifle.

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Because recoil that is too low would result in engagements always happening at extreme ranges

this is a map design issue then

it was also never a problem in PR

even if this were the case (and it's a really shitty excuse), the recoil is still ridiculous and at his point there is no reason to go full auto ever

we're playing trained soldiers and militiamen, not children

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Hardly. Recoil hurts your followup shots. If you really wanted to make engagements at longer distances harder to successfully participate in you'd have to make the rifles sway like the shooter is a thirteen year old girl with a battle rifle.

 

That's why I said engagements, not the first shot, rather the entire exchange. Because you need to take more time for follow up shots it allows the enemy to respond by shooting back, getting into cover or retreating resulting in distant engagements being less effective unless your just trying to kill a lone straggler.

 

 

this is a map design issue then

it was also never a problem in PR

even if this were the case (and it's a really shitty excuse), the recoil is still ridiculous and at his point there is no reason to go full auto ever

we're playing trained soldiers and militiamen, not children

 

In PR it wasn't a problem because the weapons were fundamentally inaccurate.

 

You're nearly right about full-auto, it's only ever useful at super short range and that's just as it should be.

 

And the thing about playing trained soldiers is that you're playing them. It's a video game and that means there's a lot that can't be represented properly, so aspects like recoil need to induce the results of the micro details that would kill a CPU or infuriate a player.

 

Game design is hard everyone and this is an aspect where I fully support the Dev's decisions because the alternative, while it would be more realistic, would hurt the game overall.

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Hardly. Recoil hurts your followup shots. If you really wanted to make engagements at longer distances harder to successfully participate in you'd have to make the rifles sway like the shooter is a thirteen year old girl with a battle rifle.

This made me laugh on this cold winter morning, thank you :3

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I think most ppl agree that auto fire is not controllable enough but how does everyone with shooting experience feel about the depiction of semi-auto in game? Does is feel realistic? I have no experience shooting but in game it feels great because you can fire both rapidly and accurately with the auto-compensation. Without it, I think this game would be a spray fest like every other shooter. Even in PR no one uses single shot at short range because there's no auto-compensation and it takes way too long too pull the mouse down onto the target after each shot. I love PR but I hate how its just about every cqb engagement is a mag dump because that's what works in game.

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The thing that I don't understand is that even when on semi, you need to control the recoil, if I shoot at 0.5Hz ( one shot each 2 sec), after the 10 rounds my AK is pointing to the sky. Normally I thought that after firing the gravity will help the shooter to get the weapon close to the initial position. I think if devs wants to encourage semi, devs needs to reduce vertical recoil on semi fire.

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The thing that I don't understand is that even when on semi, you need to control the recoil, if I shoot at 0.5Hz ( one shot each 2 sec), after the 10 rounds my AK is pointing to the sky. Normally I thought that after firing the gravity will help the shooter to get the weapon close to the initial position. I think if devs wants to encourage semi, devs needs to reduce vertical recoil on semi fire.

 

This is a massive problem. Do I think the shooter should be taming some recoil himself? Yes, but a lot of the work is done by the weight of the weapon. I understand that they don't want extreme long range engagements, but if they don't want that it there are better ways of achieving it than making it impossible to hit anyone beyond 50m with follow up shots. As it is now it's just a bad joke.

 

I can totally live with the current system.

 

Yeah, and I could live on $50/month if I really needed to, that doesn't mean it's not a shit situation. 

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Not for me :D

 

Just because you like the system doesn't mean that it's realistic or even good for everyone. Seems to me that more people are complaining about it than defending it. 

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Just because you like the system doesn't mean that it's realistic or even good for everyone. Seems to me that more people are complaining about it than defending it.

All I said is that I can live with it's not a shit situation in my opinion. ;)

​See it as you like.

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From a personal perspective I hope the Dev's don't dial down the recoil much, it will take much of the thought, 'realism' and skill out of shooting and create another BF4/COD type mechanic where full mag dumps at 50 yards are king.

 

I think the recoil is pretty forgiving as is particularly on full auto.  It's extremely easy to pull off accurate short bursts with the AK's at ranges I would guess far exceed their real life equivalents.  Perhaps single shot could use a little love with a mild randomized reset to left and right of center to simulate the lack of perpetual climb of full auto without making the rifles ridiculously easy to shoot.

 

Little video of Larry Vickers demonstrating the weaknesses of full auto, using an AK. For those not familiar, he's a reasonably experienced shooter to say the least lol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cosc-RO_oMg&list=PL6OWYt4WujZ3TSoT3IY5wOM3V1ZtwbLBM&index=5

 

 

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the recoil system is really retarded at the moment, even as someone who has only fired shotguns at a clay pigeon shoot the recoil feels over exaggerated, arma 3 ace has a pretty decent recoil system which encourages single fire from distance whilst still leaving full auto useful in a CQC situation.

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From a personal perspective I hope the Dev's don't dial down the recoil much, it will take much of the thought, 'realism' and skill out of shooting and create another BF4/COD type mechanic where full mag dumps at 50 yards are king.

 

I think the recoil is pretty forgiving as is particularly on full auto.  It's extremely easy to pull off accurate short bursts with the AK's at ranges I would guess far exceed their real life equivalents.  Perhaps single shot could use a little love with a mild randomized reset to left and right of center to simulate the lack of perpetual climb of full auto without making the rifles ridiculously easy to shoot.

 

Little video of Larry Vickers demonstrating the weaknesses of full auto, using an AK. For those not familiar, he's a reasonably experienced shooter to say the least lol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cosc-RO_oMg&list=PL6OWYt4WujZ3TSoT3IY5wOM3V1ZtwbLBM&index=5

 

Larry Vickers is a pretty crap source for being a good shooter. He's way past his prime and while he definitely was an operator way back when he's got a lot of bias in his videos and it's pretty clear he accepts money to lie about products. If you want a great example of him being terrible at weapons handling, watch his video about the double barrel bullpup shotgun and laugh when it takes him over 20 seconds to reload 8 shot shells. 

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Sorry to disagree but he's still an extremely experienced shooter who clearly has more knowledge than most from actual active duty. The point was the demonstration of the firing modes. I didnt see any product placement in that video, did you? Admittedly his videos are rife with it, along with a 100 other youtubers I could cite who also have a great deal of experience. 11 years in CAG/Delta, I'd wager his put more rounds down rane than most on these forums.

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I think that recoil in this game is currently too high as well. To me it feels like the devs have never handled firearms in any capacity (something I'm sure isn't true) but are just modelling them after how they feel firearms should work when handled and shot. I understand that there needs to be compensation because it's not a real gun and it wouldn't be realistic for it to just sit perfectly still, but at the same time that's not an excuse for the gun to bounce everywhere like you've got jello arms when you're walking or when you're shooting. Both the scope bounce when moving and the overall recoil definitely need to be tamed quite a bit. It doesn't have to be nothing, but it's way too high in its current state. 

 

The game features no tilting and other faulty sight alignments, so recoil is emphasized in order to have at least a bit of shooting skill involved. A lot of people don't seem to understand that it is not possible to model the handling of an actual firearm with just a mouse. So unless you want to take the route of having a proper firearm handling simulation with quick time events and what not, I suggest you deal with the increased recoil as a substitute for all the other handling quirks involved in a real firearm.

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The game features no tilting and other faulty sight alignments, so recoil is emphasized in order to have at least a bit of shooting skill involved. A lot of people don't seem to understand that it is not possible to model the handling of an actual firearm with just a mouse. So unless you want to take the route of having a proper firearm handling simulation with quick time events and what not, I suggest you deal with the increased recoil as a substitute for all the other handling quirks involved in a real firearm.

 

This man gets it.

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speaking of a topic that webt off course

 

the high recoil itself was not really the problem for me, the fact that its random and uncontrollable is.

 

 

I dont think you guys understand my problem, when i fire in auto mode, the mouse input is completely ignored, its not possible to counter it and futhermore, even IRL the recoil is predicatable and thus can be countered a bit, but when its random like this, thats not possible either

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it makes MG's in particular very difficult to use effectivly

 

mg fire is short fire with 3-4 rounds for supprest the enemy not for kill series . for long auto fire you need a ground target mounting, or you lay on the ground with your bipod ( and this works in the game )

butt yes for the lmg 5,56 the weapon go a little to hard up. when you not lay in the ground.

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Id like to see recoil values lowered but i think its going to end up being a server setting or mod thing.

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Some context from those who want lower recoil particularly on full auto would be useful.

How long a burst are you firing? How far is your target?

Dependent on that context it does sound like some want to pick and choose their realism based on how it affects their ablity to get kills rather than how appropriately realistic something is or how it fts into gameplay.

Ridiculously low (and I argue unrealistic) recoil with this damage isn't a pretty thought.

Full auto ar's at close range work fine, almost too well. At medium range they are less effective. That's realistic.

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