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Found 31 results

  1. Hello everyone, My name is Fred Naar, and have been around ARMA3 forums for a while, mostly flying helicopters and trying to tweak the flight model in order to make it more realistic. After spending some times with the terrible Arma SDK and posting bug / improvements reports, I realized it was really going nowhere and slowly abandoned the project. I am also the developer of Helicopter Total Realism (a.k.a. HTR ) for FSX and Prepar3D. I am still maintaining this project as it is currently used a lot in the helicopter community (we have a facebook group with over 10k members) as well as for professional training .... I was recently also contacted by the US Army as they are using HTR in their Pilot Training next program so I am helping them there ... I think that with his open architecture Squad is indeed the future of realistic cooperative military simulations, and this I believe involves helicopters as well . So the reason I am here is to check if there's interest in a realistic flight model for helicopters in Squad. Good news is that I am currently developing a realistic helicopter rescue game in Unreal Engine ( for those wanting to lean more, google Airland Helicopters) so I am already very familiar with Unreal Engine (C++ and Blueprints) and also the Squad SDK. Integrating our flight model library (a C++ library based on HTR) in any existing mod, should be relatively easy.... Thanks Fred
  2. Out of 3 hits in that round, only the first one, which wasn't caught on video, visibly did damage as the enemy chopper was almost hovering(actually having trouble landing). Bradley crew confirmed that they saw me hit the chopper as I went to rearm after the first video's shot; so it's not a clientside problem. (ping around 50ms) Something in game mechanics is preventing detonated HEAT round from damaging chopper. I'm assuming this is because there is some kind of collision-only hitbox for rotors. and that the rotor "hitbox" blocked the rest of chopper from getting hit by HEAT warhead, but it doesn't take weapon damage, only collision damage, so chopper flies away safely. Dear Squad devs, how am I supposed to make Halal terrorist chopper-kill montage if 2/3 shots turn out to do zero damage? These are American weapons; you got no excuse.
  3. Is fast roping planned?

    I'm sure everyone can agree that it would only be the next natural progression for the helicopters in this game. It really should have been in the game the day helicopters were first introduced.
  4. Helicopters & Rallies

    After playing around with the new helicopters, I've thought of some suggestions that could be applied to both the current conventional forces and the irregulars. The suggestions come from numerous play time in Squad from Kickstarter till now, PR, Battlefield and Rising storm. Situation Firstly, I understand why the game play choices were made during the development of Squad when vehicles were still in development, however now with the faster transport for larger maps and factions having equal balance in conventional force roster, I think that permanent rallies should be removed. Having rallies as a consistent spawn point takes away from the ebb and flow of combat, with no real defence, attack, silence and more of a run gun element without much silence, no real transport and less squad to squad game play. I spent a whole game as a helicopter pilot ferrying supplies (which is totally fine, it's what you do!) but not once as a transport after the initial rush, once squads placed their rallies, they were mobile from that point as it was a home brewed spawn. The issue with this is the fast paced flanking, where you eliminate a defence or counter attack but instead of having a rest, recoup and combat flow you become bogged down in a wave style attack, the same can be said for FOB's except their rearms from logistics, their large nature makes them easier to find. Feedback from taking a FOB also has that heroics game play that feels rewarding, I rarely know I've destroyed a Rally and often can keep looking for a while longer. Front lines exist less and more of an on point swivel even when large engagements are underway, which makes sense, but the ability to give up, spawn and run in from a different angle with such speed (even if it does take a minute+) is very different to the more tactical approach and slower movement. Since helicopters and now armoured transport is a thing, removing rallies persistence would better enforce team play and a slower style of game play, or at least force squads to work more with each other, compared to currently infantry and infantry, with heavier assets doing their thing. Who should get permanent rallies? Irregular forces are out gunned, out... well everything right? But that works for their play style. They are nimble, swarm and disappear style of game play. Previously this has been done in games by including tunnels within the map, however as players recognise and learn from playing each side, the Blufor forces know the tunnel entrances and choke points of the Opfor through months of play. This completely erodes the intention of playing as a foreign inva... peace bringer with less knowledge of the land. Battlefield Vietnam did a really cool concept to defeat this, they allowed the Opfor to 'place' tunnels with a kit, essentially these were mobile spawn points. Since this fits their style without giving a predictability, allowing Militia and Insurgents to utilise the permanent rally feature would be a neat way to keep them buffed (future conditions through testing could be applied, such as needing to rearm to place another one, akin to the ammo bag style of the riflemen) Conclusion I understand this approach to conventional forces would slow down their game play and potentially make it easier to steam role pub games, however like similar games with a dedicated player base, the general knowledge does get learn't over time and then from there, the base of standard is built. I do miss the times we would spend in game with a slow approach, chatting shit on a defence flag getting to know my squad before all hell broke loose, having to survive in a chaotic situation and then if you made it through, dumping a rally for those who couldn't be revived and then chatting, planning and having the silence to think and also actually become a bit nervous. Was it a Fob? Should we advance and try to get more info? Was it a Rally?? Or those amazing moments of flying in mid game in a chopper as transport, landing as the Canadian faction in the forest under smokes to get out, reinforce an already doomed squad in a desperate front approach, somehow pulling through and then, just then, a short rally dropped, then silence ensued for the next 5 minutes. As we tried to plan out the next move. Right now, you just keep running and it rarely goes without a gunshot. The trailer now states on the Steam page that it's combined arms with use of transport but that's not really the case after the first 10 minutes of setup... Thoughts please?
  5. I joined a server, fresh match. Create a Squad, take Lead Pilot (I like to fly helis in games like these), squad Joins= full squad Im like "Cool, I can run an aggressive airborne squad" (Ive gotten really good at high speed/low Altitude fast landings) Ive done this on another server too I would land the squad, quickly hop out to drop radio, HAB, ammo crate, and then take off again. And then continually provide airborne support to my squad through resupplies or moving to the next soon-to-be FOB location for continuing aggression Anyways, im in the server, and then I get kicked out of SQUAD to recruit (I was SL) Im like strange, whatever. Get my kit again, back in heli, boutta take off, kicked from server I checked the server rules, and helis apparently can ONLY be their own squad, with NO infantry involved. (2 man squads of two pilots ONLY) And im finding more and more servers are restricting like this To me, this seems a waste of a valid playstyle for helis. Having them be their own squad restricts them more to a mere supply ferry rather than an aggressive strategic tool as it significantly increases the amount of "go-between" between a heli and their prospective squad
  6. Hello developers! Your game is wonderful in many ways. Squad perhaps the best representative of the game balancing well between hardcore and interesting gameplay. It seems to me that I understand your direction of development correctly. Helicopter Flight Model and Control. After trying a helicopter flight to Alpha16 I was surprised at such a primitive physical model of flight. It seems to me that even in the arcade Battlefield flight is more realistic. What I saw: A helicopter is extremely quickly able to change the thrust and movement vector along the vertical axis, but at the same time it is completely clamped and slowly moves along the rotation axes. This is an extremely arcade flight model with an artificial limitation of rotation speeds to give a visual resemblance to real helicopters. Of course, this approach will protect your game from gameplay records with twitching helicopters like in Arma, but at the same time, it will deprive players of the pleasure of overcoming the difficulties in trying to learn how to control a helicopter. Squad is a hardcore game and I very much hope that controlling the helicopter in your game will be no less hardcore and rely on realism. Please do not ignore fans of aviation simulators. Add support for FreeTrack / OpenTrack, TrackIR and Hotas. We need the ability to assign the joystick axis to any control axis.
  7. First impressions on helicopters. Training mission only. Piloting only. Handling Way too easy to accelerate from slow speeds Accelerated -4 to 43 knots in two-three meters distance when I accidentally dropped the nose. That is too fast. Inertia is off It feels very arcade like and hollow. In low speeds it is too sensitive. Not the tail rotor how ever, it feels sluggish at all speeds. These does not feel like heavy lifters, these big helicopters need to demand some respect from the user. Yaw Yaw is sluggish and it is true at all speeds, not only high speeds where it should(!) be sluggish Quick stops / Turns Tried a quickstop maneuver that is easiest described as a sideways flare. Spent 2h on this maneuver alone. This is conducted by turning either way aggressively having the fuselage tilted 90 degrees, applying rear rotor in the direction of the turn, pulling back hard on the stick and sliding along the flight path with the belly of the fuselage facing original direction of travel aligned with the horizon. Even though I have the full side tilt with the main rotor facing fully away from the direction of flight it does not produce the expected result. It went into a rather wide turn instead of slowing down at an accelerated pace. I did however notice that if you let the rear rotor fall lower the nose and do not keep the airframe aligned with the horizon the the flare is more effective. The game seems to interpret that pitching up above the horizon as the main means of deaccelerating and not the lift from the main rotor. The airframe itself when sideways does not seem to generate lift, or have the inertia set up perfectly, so even if I hold the aggressive turn for too long it does not fall sideways towards the ground. Spontaneously it feels that the game at the moment does not handle the lift from the rotors properly. Failures Autorotation Would love if you added it Tailrotor failure Love the panicked spinning It seems to maintain the spinning at the same altitude Needs to be correctable at perfect conditions with a good pilot Crashes Alarms - Great Warning Lights - Great Tumbeling, rolling and the dust that kicks up. Lovely. Can already hear my panicked passengers on local speech crying out in despair and anger over my poor flight skills. Love it. Controls Could not invert the mouse for helicopter. This was a grand contributor to my crashes. Did not try the joystick yet Collective slider with keyboard is to inprecise. A single tap of the key and you go up 5%. Looks Nice machines Nice details Final notes You will always be compared with ARMA and I do think that you can match, or outperform, ARMA if given time. I am sorry that I as well make the comparison. ARMA helicopters pilots needs to put in allot of hours to excel under fire. And it rewards the player with the ability to fix situations and failures that newer pilots could not resolve. Other games choose to have a more arcade approach were failures are always fatal and not resolvable. I do believe that you have the intention to give us incentives and rewards for putting in the training hours. If you haven't already tried please try to reach out to Dslyecxi at ShackTactical. He is a good instructor, judging from his video tutorials, and through these videos commands respect from the online flying community. His comments could prove to be of assistance to you in your endeavor. I have been flying transport helicopter in every game that have allowed me to so I hope, and believe, you will do a great work with this aspect as you already have done with the others parts that are implemented into the game. You have already created a great game! Keep your spirits high and stay motivated! //Primetarget83 [SMIL]
  8. Before I start, let me just let it be said that I have around 12 or so hours of practice. So it's not like it's my very first impressions. 1. Flying The flight model feels decent to me. Personally i'd like it to feel a little heavier and less responsive. As it is it feels just a little to "quick" and "arcady" for squad in my opinion. Could just be the default sensitivity or something but even then you can absolutely fling the helicopters everywhere. Just seems to me its too quick and jumpy feeling as it is. Another thing I noticed is sometimes when you are coming in for a smooth and slow landing and the collective is around 40 - 50 the helicopter gets super slidey (this happens well above the ground as well). It happens inconsistently so that gives me a reason to believe it's a bug. Maybe has something to do with ground effect if that's even implemented. Maybe ground effect ramps up if you are directly above a tree? I don't know for sure but its just a thought. Speaking of the collective, its a little to sensitive for my preference. If the devs could add some sort of sensitivity slider that'd be great. (Also I've noticed on the HUD in game it says 50% is the hovering number, It's more like 45 I've noticed.) 2. Landing Landing as i'm sure everyone knows by now is pretty janky most of the time. it's pretty hard for new pilots but if you keep practicing it becomes pretty easy to even do quick landings in tighter spaces like intersections or rooftops. But something i would kill to see implemented into the game is a key to lock your wheels while on the ground. If you so as touchdown at 1 mph you will slide like your on ice regardless of what way you are facing. When the wheels hit the ground there is a severe lack of grip and "friction". This is the hardest part about landing for me. It's obviously not going to be your top priority while in combat to absolutely nail your touchdown so most of the time you will still be floating a bit while touching down, which will result in the helicopter skidding in the direction you where moving regardless of whether you are moving backwards, forwards, left or right. If there was some sort of option to lock your wheels or if they just made the helicopters grip the ground more in general it would make landing a lot better. Another thing i'd like to see changed is the landing camera. It works fine as it is i'd just like it to be more zoomed out or have a higher FOV I suppose. A fish eye lens look would be nice. I say this because to use the landing camera you really just need to be directly over the lz to even see it. Just a small inconvenience really. 3. Other Door gunners could benefit from having more tracer rounds. Maybe every 4th or so round be a tracer idk. Sometimes while in the door gunner position the helicopter sound isn't muffled and reduced. This makes communication impossible without turning down the in game audio. Give door gunners higher capacity belts. I'm guessing its 100 rounds. Really not a whole lot when you are full auto spraying at targets most of the time. Give more of a reason to have a copilot. They are really just used now to assist in navigation, landing and communication. Would be super cool if there was a key you could hit to hand the controls back and forth from pilot to copilot. Conclusion The helicopters in Squad have a lot of potential. If the developers can iron out the bugs, polish the physics and add some of the features the community have been recommending, V16 will be a really nice update to the game. If anyone would like to discuss the topic or give there own feedback feel free to do so. Thanks for reading!
  9. Right now the guns we have are the same as useless for Air Support. We need the .50 cal on the helis, at least we can shoot back at vehicles and actually do damage. Never add miniguns, they are too OP. With crappy guns helis will just be a HAB spammer, cause they are too slow to be used as element of surprise.
  10. They simply can take a large amount of hits from BTR-82, AA gun, Bradleys, .50 cal , and even PKM or m240. It is not balanced. We need faster maneuverable helis instead of these flying tanks that can get shot down by a TOW or tank easily. For real, helis are an element of surprise, they must be fast for that. So far they are used as HAB spammers.
  11. Helicopter Joystick Support

    Forcing one to engage in 3 dimensional vehicular travel with nothing more than a mouse and keyboard is mental torture. There is so much potential if you offer us joystick support for the helicopters, especially for those of us that want nothing more than to provide heli support for our teammates. By those of us I mean we who spend countless hours on flight simulators anyways and would be invaluable if given the chance at utilizing your helicopters with JOYSTICKS.
  12. Hello everyone, long time lurker but first time poster here. Let me preface this by saying i'm relatively new to Squad but i've played quite a bit the precursor Battlefield 2: Project Reality (or BF2:PR for short) over the past 2-3 years. As soon as I built a new PC, i was lucky enough to catch Squad on sale so i bought it immediately, even though my GPU is a carryover from my previous system and is below minimum requirements (a simple nVidia GTX 750 with just 1 GB of VRAM). Never the less, i was able to fluidly play for a few dozen hours and get a taste of the game. WIth V13 and the optimizations done, things have improved further and i find myself enjoying the game on an almost daily basis. Well, as the title says, i would like to offer some thoughts on potential helicopter mechanics. This is not an "I want now, devs plz" type of thing. It's just a post summarizing the issues i see mentioned by fellow Squad players and experiencing myself ingame, distilling my own experience with BF2:PR and comparing it with Squad in its current state , as well as offering a few potential solutions based on knowledge i have accumulated as a huge flight sim nerd over the years. This will be a long one, so get a cup of coffee and let's get started. Current Supply Issues: Why add helicopters in the first place, you might ask? Well, logistics and flanking maneuvers are much harder in Squad than in BF2:PR, which forces gameplay down a few predictable paths and meta choices. We could say people don't flank as much because it takes a lot of time. In addition to that, it is a very frequent phenomenon to see logi trucks disabled or, even worse, abandoned in hard to reach places after someone used them as a personal taxi. This is partly an issue of community mentality and server rules though and it happens with all vehicles. One of the things that really surprised me when making the jump from BF2:PR to Squad was that 99% of servers don't use dedicated squads. Anyone can grab an APC or tank and the SLs usually approve it. This would be a huge drawback to the use of air assets and it's pretty much sidestepping the purpose of having a "vehicle approval" function in the first place.(In BF2:PR, sometimes random people would "steal" a chopper or other high value asset just so they could get out to a hill fast and play solo sniper. And you couldn't do anything about it unless an admin was online to enforce server rules. I think that's why OWI implemented the approval function.) Of course, teams, squads and individual players should manage their logistics properly and there should be a cost for being careless with that. It also creates nice teamwork opportunities and emergent gameplay when you manage to sneak in undetected, repair a logi and save it for your team. These are the good things that come out of it. The bad are situations where a team is totally cut off from supplying itself but the opposing team is not able to push effectively. So, team A cannot advance and win because they can't build FOBs and ressuply their ammo, but team B cannot win either because of lower skill in its player pool, bad communication, or simply having also mismanaged their logis. This situation ties in with recent features that have gotten a mixed reception from the community, like the buddy rally system and the removal of the "dead dead" penalty. These mechanics allow players to keep throwing bodies in the fire, albeit in an inefficient manner if the scenario playing out is like the one i'm describing. All this makes the game a long, drawn-out affair for both teams, but not the kind of enjoyable, slower-paced game that you would often get in PR. The action is hectic as people respawn and rush each other, but the tactics devolve to simply rushing positions until someone runs out of tickets. And to be honest, it happens quite often. Potential Solution: The already planned addition of transport helicopters and the logical counter to them, man portable AA missile launchers (a new AA kit/class) and static AA missile emplacements for FOBs. Choppers facilitate a lot of mobility and if they can also drop supply crates like they did in BF2:PR, it would allow for a lot more options both in maneuvering around the enemy, as well as fortifying key positions early on in the match. The increased mobility offered would also allow for the removal of the buddy rally and the reinstatement of "dead dead" mechanics. So, we would be able to actually move faster around the map in a more cohesive and efficient manner (entire squad dismounts at once, instead of spawning at a rally and rushing single-file into the firefight to be picked off individually), but in a manner that also provides a very tangible risk and gives the enemy a way to counter it. Instead of magically teleporting to a flanking position, we would be flown there and also get an ammo drop by the chopper, but the enemy would try to shoot us down on the way. I don't know, it just seems like a good gameplay flow to me, especially if we consider that two of the most fundamental game design principles are risk vs reward mechanics and giving players equal opportunity to counter each other. Some things would have to be adapted a bit differently, due to the way the supply system in Squad is different than the one in BF2:PR. I think it would be best if we could load supplies into a chopper the same way we do with current vehicles (so that we can customize ammo/construction resources), but be able to drop it to the ground all at once as a crate, just like it was in BF2:PR (to maintain the role of the transport chopper as a fast supply mechanism). Of course, depending on transit speed, survivability and chopper dimensions, the amount of supplies loaded would have to be different for each chopper and possibly lower than what a logi truck can carry, in order to maintain balance and not make trucks totally obsolete. The way it was done in PR is that we didn't have construction points but we needed a specific amount of supply crates to be dropped close to the SL before we could build stuff. A large crate was equal to 2 small crates and that's what you needed in order to even place a FOB for your squad to dig. If you wanted to add static weapon emplacements you needed an extra large crate (or 2 small crates). Now, a logi truck carried two large crates, which allowed SLs to either make a mortar/TOW/MG FOB immediately, or make 2 smaller FOBs in different places. Choppers carried less than that, which made the whole thing balanced. You want more supplies? Take the logi truck. You want to get somewhere fast? Talk to the transport squad, get a ride in the chopper and you may have to wait for the pilot to make a second supply run before you can build all the stuff you want to build. Choppers usually carried one large or one small crate, depending on their size/class. Smaller, faster and more sliperry/survivable ones like the western factions' Huey and Lynx carried a small crate, while the heavier Mil Mi 8/17 variants used by the Russian and Arab factions carried a large crate. I think only the Chinook carried two large crates, but it was available only in a few specific maps and layers. Going by the above description, in terms of supplies carried a heavy transport chopper in PR is equal to a logi, a medium chopper is half a logi and a light chopper is a quarter logi. Applying this to Squad, we would get the following: Logi truck, Chinook: 3000 supplies Mil Mi 8/17, Agusta Westland Merlin and other medium helicopters: 1500 supplies Huey, Lynx and other light helicopters: 750 supplies. This would be a safe starting place but it might still need a bit of fine tuning, due to the differences between BF2:PR and Squad. Also keep in mind that loading supplies in PR is quite a bit slower, and i think choppers also load supplies slower than trucks. This is yet another way to balance it all out by adding some downtime between supply runs, so that transport helicopters don't make the logis totally obsolete. Control Issues: But was it all good in BF2:PR? Definitely not. For one, it was almost impossible to fly with proper tactics or a joystick, due to a combination of game engine limitations and the players responding to them by forming a very specific and stable meta. First of all, the game was made to work with a mouse. However, in order to give the feeling of at least a bit of realism, it required somewhat constant adjustments and pressure on the controls, just like a real world aircraft of any kind requires. Well, unless you use the aircraft trim, but this is getting into flight sim territory and is probably beyond the scope of a tactical shooter, where most flights are a few minutes between landings or death/respawn. What the BF2 engine did was feature some kind of built-in "force application lingering" (my own terms, for lack of a better one) to help the player control choppers and airplanes. So, you would take off in your chopper from a hover and try to pick up some forward speed. If you pushed the mouse forward, the nose would drop and the chopper would start moving forward. At this point you might also give it a bit more thrust, to maintain altitude and not dive. Pretty standard stuff up till now. But the nose of the aircraft would want to come up at some point or go even lower, due the lack of trim and depending on the way each vehicle was modeled. This is the constant control adjustment they built in to make it feel more realistic. But can you imagine having to constantly drag your mouse around just to maintain level flight? It would be horrible. So, what happened is that once you pushed your mouse forward to nose the chopper over, the controls reacted as if the pilot kept the stick in that position for a while, gradually and slowly returning to center. Instead of having to frantically drag your mouse along your pad, you just had to give it one initial nudge, and then give it smaller nudges every few dozen seconds to maintain your chosen flight path. In essence, they simulated a joystick by making each control input "linger" and then decrease gradually back to the "controls center" over time. It worked really well and gave you a feel similar to the one you would get by using a stick, while you were in fact using a mouse. It also made it over 9000 levels of counter-intuitive to use an actual stick, especially if you already had some flight sim experience. In a real aircraft and in a dedicated flight sim game, you just push your analog stick to a new position and keep it there for as long you want your controls to act on the aircraft. When you want to center your controls, you just release pressure and/or move the stick back towards the center position (either the center of aerodynamic forces/trim in the real world, or your joystick center in a PC simulator). In BF2 (and PR by extension) and due to the way they simulated a stick-via-mouse, centering your stick would not center the controls! Since control inputs had a built-in lasting delay into them, to center them you would actually have to counter your previous input via an opposing stick input. Needless to say, this is something that goes against years, or even decades, of muscle memory for any player who's ever played/flown flight sims and most of all, defeats the purpose of even using a joystick entirely. Proposed Solution: Separate control logic for different controllers. Keep mouse control logic same as it was in BF2:PR for people who want to fly with a mouse since it worked very well, but use a normal joystick control logic for any analog controllers so that people who want to fly with a stick, can actually fly. Realism Limitations: And now for the tricky part. Once you got past the quirky control schemes, flying anything in BF2:PR was far too arcadish. Of course you will wonder, does it make sense to spend time and resources on accurate flight models in a tactical shooter game? And you would be right to ask the question, but the answer is "it depends". If it limits the players' ability to use realistic tactics, then it's worth looking at. Helicopters are quirky, unstable machines by nature. Maintaining a stable hover, transitioning into a hover from high speed level flight and making a vertical landing are actually some of the most difficult aspects of flying a helicopter. Instead, what we had in BF2:PR was the exact opposite. You could come in screaming hot in a near vertical dive in a transport chopper, arrest that tremendous sink rate in a second or two and slam the chopper down on a rooftop intact. It made for some highly spectacular flying if you had a competent player at the controls, but it was "Hollywoodish" to the extreme. In addition to that, rotor blades did not have a collision model, so you could set it down among the trees in heavily forested areas, as long as your fuselage was not touching anything. Additionally, attack choppers did the exact opposite of what they usually do in the real world. BF2:PR had a much more limited view distance, which was somewhat extended by using vehicle optics. At the same time, defeating AA missiles with countermeasures was quite hard and always seemed to me that it was more luck than skill. This meant that attack pilots hovered at the highest altitude possible, so that the ground troops could not see them. The chopper gunner could still pick out targets at a limited radius around the chopper thanks to the magnified optics though. Players on the ground would still get a lock tone if they turned their AA missile to that part of the sky, but 99% of the time you never knew something was there until you had been attacked, and by that point it was usually too late. If missiles were in fact fired at them or if they were out of guided missiles and had to make a rocket/gun attack run, pilots went into a screaming dive all the way to the ground while popping countermeasures along the way, using their excess speed to exit the area quickly. Then they had to spend the next 5 minutes climbing back up to their perch. In reality, most attack choppers fly NoE (nap of the earth) profiles, using terrain masking at low altitudes, because otherwise it's quite possible for guided AA systems and faster aircraft to detect and pick them off. Proposed Solution: First let's start with the easy to do stuff. A proper collision model that includes the rotor blades into the mix will make things more realistic, demanding and engaging for the helicopter players. As for attack choppers, if they ever get added, the increased view distance in addition with effective countermeasures will negate the need to fly very high and force them into lower, more realistic flight profiles. As a side note, i know most maps are too small for true attack choppers and jets, when in reality they carry guided AT missiles with at least 8km of range. Also, flying jets in PR was hilarious and felt artificial, because you would run out of map in seconds (but they did look cool from the ground). But maybe we could get some light scout (e.g the Little Bird for the US) or armed versions of transport choppers (like a gunpod/unguided rocket Mil mi 8 for Russian equipped factions) down the line. To get fixed wing assets and proper attack helicopters into the game, the easiest workaround would be to extend the map by several km in every direction, but have that "extra territory" render at a much lower detail level to maintain acceptable performance. And now comes the harder stuff. In order to prevent the issues described above, all airframes should have some limits. They don't have to be dynamically calculated or even highly realistic flight models (this is after all a tactical shooter and not a flight sim), they could be simply be artificial redlines that if the player crosses something bad happens. Vortex ring state and settling with power are the nightmare of every novice helicopter pilot and while they are not exactly similar, i will simplify and group them up for the purposes of this write up. To cut a long story short, a helicopter flies by pushing air underneath it. If you reduce power by too much and start sinking too rapidly while in a hover, you run the risk of descending through the downwash created by your own rotor. This means that in addition to gravity, you have a bunch of moving air pushing you towards the ground. Additionally, since you were in a hover to begin with, your rotors already needed to be at a higher RPM to maintain level flight. The reason is that rotor blades are like mini-wings and when there is forward motion, they generate more lift than compared to a hover. If you try to exit the proverbial corner you backed yourself into by applying more power, you simply add more downwash that pushes you down faster, until you run out of available power and slam into the ground, making pretty fireworks for the nearby SL who was counting on you for a pickup. In fact, for most real choppers their descent rate in a hover is limited to no greater than 300-500 feet per minute or thereabouts in order to prevent this situation. So how do you recover and regain control? Well, there are some advanced techniques developed by some Swiss pilots, but they are for flying rescue choppers in demanding Alpine terrain at high altitudes near the limits of available engine power. They also rely in "crossing the controls" (opposite stick and rudder) in a way that depends upon the direction of the rotor's rotation, so they require at least a joystick and advanced flight models. So they are probably not worth modelling in Squad. The second and most widespread technique is to simply get out of the downwash. Don't add power at all. Instead, keep your rotors spinning slowly and just nose over (or even go sideways) and get outside the death tunnel of descending air. Needless to say, you saved your chopper and the squad you are carrying, but you also ruined your approach and added a few precious seconds to the landing. Meanwhile, enemy APCs, AA gunners or even LATs are lurking nearby. Maybe it would be better if you would have just brought it to a hover and let the guys you are carrying fast rope down. Does it sounds like good, dynamic gameplay yet? So, having limited the issue of "i can descend and touchdown at ridiculously fast, unrealistc speeds", lets see what to do about forward speed to prevent unrealistic dives by attack choppers and transport choppers making "slam dunk" troop insertions. This is much easier. Every single aircraft has a Vne (never exceed speed) limit. You cross it, things start to break due to air pressure. Similar to a G limit for touch downs, which is the difference between a normal landing and a crash landing. In addition to that though, choppers also have a thing that's called the retreating blade stall. Remember how we said that forward motion adds lift because the propeller blades are small wings? Well, yes and no. Lift depends on the relative speed of a wing compared to the surrounding air. The rotor blade that is moving forward at any given time generates way more lift, because it's moving against the surrounding air. More air pressure, more lift. Meanwhile, the rotor blade that is facing the tail of the chopper (the retreating blade) has a much lower relative speed to the air than the forward blade and generates less lift. In fact, you can get a chopper to go fast enough that the retreating blade's speed difference to the surrounding air is all but zeroed or very close to it. And since that blade is a wing, it stalls and stops producing lift if there is not enough air rushing over/under it. You would expect the chopper to nose up at this point, since you have no lift on the back side of the chopper, right? Well, since choppers are weird by nature and like to torment us with physics, this is almost the case but not exactly. In fact, due to gyroscopic effects, the effect of the loss of lift takes a whole 90 degrees of rotation to act on the chopper. Which means that when the retreating blade stalls, the force imbalance is not on the front/aft axis of the chopper, but the left/right one. In simpler terms, depending on the direction your main rotor spins, if the retreating blade stalls the chopper rolls (sometimes violently) to the left or to the right. And if you are close to the ground, you just crashed. This retreating blade stall doesn't take too much speed to occur and while it depends on the specific helicopter, i think a Mil Mi 8 gets it around 250km/h or so. These last two effects are complex and not even flight sims got them right until recently. But to be honest, we don't have to have them exactly 100% right. It could just be a simplistic case of //vertical speed in feet per minute if chopper.verticalSpeed <= -300 { chopper.verticalSpeed = chopper.verticalSpeed * 1.2 + chopper.downwashForce(rotorRPM) } and if chopper.forwardSpeed >= 300km/h { chopper.uncommandedRollLeft(20) //in degrees } Well, that's all for now. If you made it thus far, congratulations. I'm looking forward to getting the choppers in the game and hearing what the community and maybe the devs themselves think about these ideas. EDIT: Added proposed values in the Logi/Transport Helicopter section for the amount of supplies carried by each vehicle type/class.
  13. I took a hard look at the 2017 model of the UH-60. From what I see, it has the same problem of the main rotor being perpendicular to the body of the helicopter rather than being tipped 3-4 degrees forward. Although I'm really excited (no joke) about seeing helicopters almost being official after seeing this scene in the trailer, from our point of view, it looks like the Mi-8 landing also has the case where the propellers are almost parallel with the body while the irl helicopter blueprint has a tipped-forward main rotor. (TAKE NOTE): What can be seen between many of the Russian military helicopters with wheels is that the main rotor is almost parallel with the line between the front and back wheel (when looked from the side) (as seen in the mi-8, mi-24, and mi-28 blueprints as seen above and below). This results in the helicopters being able to land on a flat surface while hovering and both wheels will touch the ground almost at the same time when descending. What I'm worried with is that the devs will make the same mistake like basically all of the other games (except DCS world) where those devs make a model of whatever helicopter they are trying to make and then they just slap on the main rotor parallel to the body rather than tipping it forward as shown in the official blueprints of the helicopter. The reason why almost all helicopters have a main rotor that is tipped forward (like shown in this mi-24 blueprint in the upper section of the image) is so that you can fly almost like a plane when moving fast (when maintaining a certain velocity, the helicopters forward momentum/velocity is basically where the nose is pointing), the titled forward rotor provides the lift AND forward momentum. This comes in handy with the mi-24 where you can get lift and forward thrust at the same time while you still have your reticle pointed at the target that you want to do a quick strafe run on with dumbfire rockets. I've never seen an actual attitude indicator of a military helicopter in person, but there is most likely a mark somewhere around angle 2-5 above the horizon marker (different per helicopter) where it shows where you have to point your nose in order to keep the helicopter in a hover at one spot. Same issue can be seen below of an in-game apache and the tilt of the main-rotor being wrong compared to an irl blueprint. All in all, I believe that the helicopters in the game should be modeled just like its real life version. By that, I mean the rotors and their forward tilt, like the black hawk for instance. Almost all of the games and many models of the blackhawk, like the uh60 in the squad mod, for a long time have had Blackhawk models that have the rotors horizontal with the body of the helicopter rather than being tilted forward . I hope that the final helicopters in-game are modeled with the forward tilt of the main rotor just like its real life counterpart and hovers with the main rotor horizontal to the ground and the body of the helicopter pointed up a bit (irl picture of UH-60 and Mi-8 below). It would look more realistic and cooler in my opinion if the official helicopter models and their hovering flight models were done right. Whatever the devs choose to do with the game is beyond my control. Whether the helicopters have this realistic feature or not in their release in Squad, I will still fly them just like the hundreds of hours I've flown in Project Reality: Bf2. This game, even with some flaws compared to Project Reality, is amazing and I am wishing the best of the future of the game and the devs putting many coffees into the making of this game. P.S. (The pre-set dedicated squads would be a REALLY good idea once helicopters come out, I doubt the current community of the game will make dedicated squads for the tank, apc, and helo assets like the PRBF2 community does. We will really need those '1-max trans, tank, apc, and cas' squads for better teamwork and coordination of assets.) Cheers!
  14. Heli flight models

    Question for the devs here but how will the flight model will work, is it going to be like the heli mod or arma? Not sure if you guys played either but I want to know which one to train up in
  15. TrackIR and Joystick control for Helicopters

    I am very much looking forward to the development of helicopters and I know many other people are. However, once they are introduced to Squad, I would very much like to see TrackIR v5 and Joystick control available with helicopters as it would be an easier approach for getting used to aircraft. Though it will take more time and resources, I ask that the developers take into consideration my request for introducing these with helicopters and are making it one of their future goals. I use a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and TrackIR 5 Headset clip for my setup.
  16. Air Vehicles

    Will there be Air Vehicles like Blackhawks, AC-130s and A-10s later in the builds? Thanks!
  17. With helicopters arriving in coming updates, i was thinking about how fobs might be seen from the air. I'm not entirely sure how fobs are eventually going to be used but my suggestion is to have some sort of camoflague net, to try and hide fob locations. This might be difficult because of open areas, little tree cover, different foliage colors on each map. I thought this would be useful for teams who have built a forward operating base and rely on keeping it hidden.
  18. Helicopters

    Helicopter We will have helicopters in the game? I would suggest that had specific kit for pilots and crew, would enable players who liked to flight and also to accumulate flight hours, making the game more realistic. During the battle, few would like to be flying supporting and this could help those who really like activity
  19. Helicopters

    This may be an ignorant question so I apologize in advance. I was a fan of PR and it is the main reason that led me to buy squad during their kickstarter campaign. I have been really looking forward to helicopters being added to the game. To be honest I have only played the game a small amount since I have had access. But I was wondering if anyone knew when helicopters would be out. Thanks TLDR: When are helos coming?
  20. Door Gunner Kits

    This is a discussion basically regarding the implementation of having the pilot kit be use able on the door guns of trans helicopters. As you can see in the picture below it is not simply the troops the pilots are carrying acting as the door gunners but actually the helicopter crew chiefs. I know that the reason you weren't allowed to use a pilot kit as a door gunner was so there wouldn't be some pseudo paratrooper where a pilot would drop a crate and a door gunner in a pilot suit would jump out and parachute. However, this could easily be countered by making it so that A. there is an alternate version of a pilot kit called "Helicopter Crew Chief" where the kit would have a bare bones mp5 (or whatever faction related smg), a pistol, red smoke, a knife and a couple patches. The difference between this and a normal pilot kit would be that this kit would have no parachute and a ballistic face mask with a visor as seen in the picture below for aesthetic purposes. If the devs didn't want to go through the trouble of doing this they could simply make it so that if a pilot parachutes after jumping out of a door gun or passenger seat, they won't be allowed to access a crate or be able to pick up a kit for a few minutes so they don't abuse the pilot kit as a paratrooper. The reason I think one of these ideas should be implemented is because since helis such as chinooks or blackhawks will have much bigger passenger capacity so the whole chopper won't be used up and also to have dedicated light fire support on maps with no cas or before cas starts up.Tell me what you think below.
  21. I'd like to start a discussion about performance problems with the game. Problems that I feel are very important to be highlighted at this stage. Issues that I don't believe most Squad players are aware of. Please bear with me here. Or skip to short summary at bottom if you can't be bothered to read it all. We have been told that the main reason for poor performance in Squad is the animation system. I'm sure this is true and I'm very much looking forward to seeing the results of the new system the DEVS are working on. However, there are actually bigger performance issues at hand that I don't believe any one seems to be aware of. After spending the last month or so experimenting to ludicrous lengths, I've finally found a way to consistently reproduce the problem that I want to bring to everyone's attention... It seems that when viewing the map/level from a distance, the Frames Per Second can drop considerably. I first noticed this when I would jump onto a wall or high building, allowing me to see further into the distance on some maps, to find the FPS drop by a considerable chunk. I initially assumed it was all the other players and their animations being sent through the server and back yada yada yada, just as we've been told by the DEVS, but after playing around with the 'free-look camera', I realised this has nothing to do with the animation system, and the issue is far, far worse when elevating to a much higher altitude and looking down on the map. I found a drop in FPS by over half!!!! If I may, I'd like to share with you a video I made, demonstrating the problem. - What I did was start a single player game, or 'training mode', and manually change the map to Chora (which is by far the worst for this issue). This eliminated any possible animation-based performance drop as no one else was present on the map with me. FPS was super high as I have a very powerful machine. Then I elevated the camera up high and looked down to view the whole map below to find the the FPS come tumbling down to way below 30fps. The bigger concern was that despite lowering the graphics settings to the absolute bare minimum, the FPS hardly increased at all. The real problem with this is the idea of using airborne vehicles like helicopters - it's going to hinder the pilot with very low FPS. I can only imagine how bad it would be for someone who doesn't have a super-fast Intel CPU with an over-clock like I have. (THIS IS NOT A GPU PROBLEM, AS YOU'LL NOTICE IN THE VIDEO THE GPU USAGE IS EXTREMELY LOW DESPITE THE LOW FPS). I'm aware that some CPU optimisation is due, but are we really going to see an increase of 30FPS+ ??? Because that is what it's going to take to satisfy most players such as myself who absolutely need 60FPS as a bare minimum. (First world problems, I know!) I hate it when people casually ask the DEVS to just 'chime in' as if they don't have anything better to do, but in this particular case, I think we could all benefit from hearing from someone involved with developing the game, or even just the maps and their assets. Is this issue going to be sorted? Can we expect enough optimisation to clean up the problem? I'm sure the DEVS are already well aware of this as they must be zipping up and down the map in 3D space as they're designing the level. Surely??? SHORTER SUMMARY: When looking down the map from higher up, or even down the map from a slightly higher perspective than the ground, FPS can tank considerably, despite no one else playing on the server / game (which eliminates the possibility for the animation system to be the culprit.) Any help or feedback on this issue from anyone would be hugely appreciated, as right now, I'm very worried this is going to totally destroy the life of this game for a large majority of us. Edit - 3700K @ 4.4Ghz. !
  22. Photo from https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201389413953053&set=a.1978871747202.2105869.1105406132&type=3 When I can be a pilot and do this sort of stuff I will have a real hard time not doing it all the time.
  23. Just some ideas

    So it's my first post here and I'm just brain storming with a few other players over the course of the last few days. So don't cut my throat if it's already been brought up. Just trying to get involved....so I served 4 years in the marine corps infantry and 2 years as a security contractor with multiple deployments. First idea- Air support preferably computer controlled, less moving parts. Maybe have American, Russian squad leaders have air on station after completing certain objectives. Not really sure how to work how they get the air support maybe someone else can brain storm alittle bit with us here. Have Americans getting an a10 gun run or Cobra/Apache hydra rockets or 20mm gun run. Call them and in 60 seconds or so your map pops back up confirming air on station when you can place where you want the gun run at. Direction, etc etc. Russians get the frog foot or hind or so something. Maybe Taliban/ opfor squad leaders having a special of IEDs or something of that nature. Second idea- Machine gun team 1 or 2 man. With 240, PKM, whatever. Third idea- need optics these fire fights are taking place from great distances. You should be able to get some sight based off the area you are fighting. It's really hard to see enemy fighters when they have optics and you don't. Just kindof throwing ideas in the wind. Feel free to throw some other ideas out there or go off what I already said.
  24. Hello, I know this discussion is REALLY early regarding helicopters. However, if Squad release an CH-47 Chinook or w/e, how much player will be able to go in it!?!? By default on our keyboard, we only have 10 keys, which are (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0) and normally, a Chinook should be able to hold up more then 10 persons... :( :blink: Any possible way just to add a move key to the left position in circle in the chopper like in Battlefield or Arma? Something like that i guess... It should hold at least 40 persons :D