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dolmaface

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  1. What SPECIFICALLY is your problem?

    Thanks for your input Gatzby! I think I have come up with a decent way of explaining why the rally/FOB mechanics need to be adjusted The mechanics encourage this current meta Since FOBs and Rallys are so powerful, in AAS all of the fighting gets focused around the offensive/defensive objectives. It doesn't always happen exactly like this, but most of the time, on public servers, the game devolves into each team building FOBs on the flags, and then placing rallies around their enemies flag. This divides your team into an attacking side, and a defending side, that fight at the opposing flags. This style of gameplay gets very repetitive, stale, and encourages bad habits. Since it is so easy to spawn, and get right back into fighting with rallies or OP FOBs, players don't worry about survival. There is a constant stream of players attacking/defending the objectives, and it more/less becomes a meat grinder. Rather, I would like to see the map like this In this scenario each team controls their own half of the map, and along the center is a line of conflict which acts in a tug of war. In this case, there is "behind enemy lines", and "behind friendly lines". Rather than your team getting divided on the two active flags, each team acts as a singular unit pushing on the other. Rather than all the action being concentrated on the two flags, it is spread out across the line of conflict. This sort of gameplay is much more realistic, allows your team to organize more easily, and spreads out the action. In order to accomplish this though, the spawn mechanics need to change such that it is very difficult to place a spawn behind enemy lines. If all of your spawns are on your half of the map, then it would be very difficult for players to get to spawn behind enemy lines, because there are no spawns behind enemy lines! How is this done? The game has to limit rally placement so that it must be nearby friendly emplacements/vehicles, this makes it so that you can't place rallies behind enemy lines! but still can behind your line (since you have a plethora of friendly FOBs, flags, APCs, etc... behind your line). By making that simple change to rallies, the game separates the teams and establishes a clear line of conflict, but now FOBs are too powerful, so the simple solution is to increase the overrun radius, so that teams cannot place FOBs on Flags anymore, and attacking/defending is thus balanced. This does so many great things to the game; You actually don't want spawn points on the flags, because that concentrates the action in one small area too much, it is better that the CAP zone remain fairly spawn free so that it becomes more about Squad maneuvering and region influence. Increasing the FOB+rally overrun radius does this by forcing teams to place their FOBs/rallies behind/away from the objectives Getting behind enemy lines is no longer forgiving because there is no nearby rally to fall back on. Squads either have to survive, or coordinate with their team to establish a FOB/supported rally behind enemy lines. This is reasonable since it shouldn't be easy to establish flanks. Keeps your team a unit that pushes against the other in a tug of war Allows for creativity in FOB placement Allows for more versatile maneuvering and tactics. Make it easier for teams on public servers to remain organized Puts more emphasis on placing FOBs rather than rallies (especially when helos get released, building FOBs will be super easy!) Makes squad vs squad engagements more rewarding since you will actually be able to squad wipe, rather than fight endless whack-a-mole rallies (which isn't fun). Slows the game down, and allows squad leaders to spend more time organizing, building, and maneuvering. Right now there is very little time to do these things since there is always enemy constantly attacking you or the flag. My solution to these problems are the ways that Project Reality resolved them, and think it is great that you guys are exploring other ways, but at the end of the day if those other ways still allow players to plop semi-infinite spawn points anywhere they want, and all of the game is focused around two small objectives on the map, it doesn't really improve anything. Remember, passive punishments like limited ammo and ticket loss are not reliable means of enforcing the gameplay you want! On public servers no one cares or keeps track of ticket loss, and most people would rather get back in the action with limited ammo than spawn back at a FOB. In order to enforce certain styles of gameplay, you have to actively limit players options. If you want to deter people from spawning at rallies(limited ammo), make it so they literally can't spawn at rallies. If it becomes personally inconvenient for a player to respawn, he/she will want to survive. If you want a game that doesn't encourage run and gun, you have to punish them for running and gunning! I know people don't like the idea of having to walk or lose a position, but those punishments are necessary for a game that involves tactics like this! *note: when helos get released transportation will get improved tremendously That being said I am excited for new updates, and hope you take our thoughts into consideration! *also: I actually really like the limited ammo mechanic and think its a step in the right direction, but it isn't enough
  2. What SPECIFICALLY is your problem?

    Guys...I've really started believing recently that the devs are not going to adjust the spawning mechanics like we suggest, and the only way we are going to see them is through mods. I have been giving thought in making a mod that adjust the spawns like we want, and have talked to some people on the modding discord who explained that it would be quite simple. Is anyone else interested in working on this with me? Really, the hard part would be getting enough people to play test it...and who knows, if it gains traction maybe the devs would change their mind?
  3. I think crates are planned, and the idea is that you can customize the crates loadout prior to dropping This all comes down to map design. Some maps do it very well. For example, Talil has fog which limits players view distance so you can't see what your enemy is doing from afar. Maps with a lot of trees do a good job as well, because then you can hide HABs in the forest without people seeing it. It can be done well, PR does it well, no reason why Squad can't. I completely agree with this, classic rally points need a massive nerf! First, helicopter mod is not a good indication of how choppers will play out. If you want a better understanding play Project Reality where they work great. Second, they aren't meant to be completely OP, they will take a fair bit of skill to fly and dodge AA. You won't be able to drop troops behind enemy lines like you can with rallys, but neither should you be able to do something like that with ease...you will, however, be able to fairly easily transport troops/supplies behind your line, which you should be able to
  4. What SPECIFICALLY is your problem?

    But the game mechanics are at fault. The purpose of game mechanics is to guide the meta in the correct direction: it should punish players for not surviving and not working as a team. The way the mechanics are currently setup actually rewards players for not surviving, or for placing FOBs on flags. Why would I wait 6 minutes for a medic to revive when I can respawn at the nearby rally and do something more effective for 6 minutes? Yea, giving up will lose the team a ticket, but the 6 minutes that I am doing something effective gives me the opportunity to support my team and potentially save further ticket loss, or damage the other teams tickets. In fact the game actually encourages people who care about tickets to run and gun, because the rally/FOB mechanics are so forgiving! It is not the players, it is the mechanics, because the mechanics drive the meta. All games converge to whatever ideal strategies+decisions the mechanics provide. Think about it this way, if for example the devs completely removed rallys from the game (this is just an example I am not recommending this), then players attacking enemy objectives would no longer give up immediately and respawn at a nearby rallies...because they literally cannot.They would be left two options: wait for a medic, or respawn at the FOB which is probably far away. In this scenario the game mechanics encourage the player to survive and wait for a medic, because they don't want to have to go all the way back to the FOB/lose their positioning. Tickets costs are not a reliable mechanic for driving meta, since most players on public servers don't care about saving tickets, and it doesn't actually force them to limit their decisions like my example above.
  5. I would like to make a simple mod that does the following: Despawn rally after 60s unless within 75m of friendly FOB/APC/Flag Increase HAB overrun radius to 100m Can anyone help me do this for a playtest? I have no idea how to navigate the SDK and my computer specs are not very powerful. Thanks
  6. What SPECIFICALLY is your problem?

    Taking out buddy rallies for helo release is not enough to fix the game. They need to Make rallies despawn after 60s unless placed within 75m of friendly FOB/APC/Flag Increase HAB overrun radius to 100m to force people from placing HAB on CAPs Make HABs smaller so they are easier to hide
  7. What SPECIFICALLY is your problem?

    What has me worried though is that everyone thinks the game started going down the casual/arcade route after V12, but really the game has been going down that route for awhile. Rally's have always been far too powerful, buddy rally is the nail in the coffin. It is not the beginning of the game going down the casual route, it's more/less the confirmation. I think I may have now lost all hope, if they release helicopters and don't nerf rallies+FOBs to make them function similarly to PR, modding will be our only hope.
  8. What SPECIFICALLY is your problem?

    RALLIES! For godsake just nerf them already, I have no idea why they even made the buddy rally, they are already overpowered as it is! I have been saying this for awhile now, rallies ruin everything about this game Staying alive is not important since it is more efficient to respawn at nearby rally Squad wiping is pretty much impossible, and is a game of whack a mole that sucks and isn't immersive, tactful, or fun Spawn, run, gun, die, rinse and repeat is the motto Teamwork/coordination is not important since rallies don't require it The game has no decisive frontline since rallies make it too easy to establish permanent flanking routes anywhere and everywhere Attacks are too forgiving since there is always a nearby backup spawn DEVS just take a page out of the Project Reality playbook, which has been balanced over the past decade and works great! Make rallies last only 60s unless placed within 75m radius of friendly FOB/APC/Flag. This fixes all the issues! Then give a slight nerf to FOBs so that you can't just place them on CAPs (increase overrun radius to 100m); this ensures that defense isn't OP. Now the game becomes more about tactful maneuvering and coordination, rather than stupid ****ing rallys.
  9. The effect of view distance on choppers is something that has been talked about a lot in the past. The good news is the devs recognize this, and in some maps limited view distance with fog. When Talil first released I was very curious, and tested the the view distance vs Kashan in Project Reality, and they are the same! The fog of war is a very important aspect of Project Reality's balance, because otherwise you could fly high in a chopper from the opposite end of the map, and watch where all the enemy choppers supply FOBs. This is another excellent point. Despawning rallies is neither fun, rewarding, or immersive. Even if you do successfully despawn a rally, it isn't very long before another just pops ups; it becomes a game of whack a mole! With choppers you will also be able to spot/hear enemy squads getting dropped off, and then you will have to hunt them! which is way more exciting This made me think of something; by relying on helos instead of rallies a frontline would be better established. Right now it is way to easy to flank the enemy with rallies. If rallies are limited to only being placed within a ~75m radius of friendly radios/apc/flag, then the only way to get behind the enemy is via helos, trucks, or walking. Therefore, flanking would be far more difficult because Helos and trucks make noise Helos are likely to be shot down Walking takes awhile And your squad will have only one life since you won't be able to place a rally far away from FOBs/apcs/flags
  10. I want to discuss how helicopters will change the game, and how I believe it will have a tremendously positive impact. *This post really is focusing on maps > 3^2 km, which is really where the future of this game lies Lets start off with the most obvious effects. Helicopters will make transportation far easier Helicopters will make building HABs/FOBs far easier Helicopters will make supply runs far easier These are pretty major impacts, that completely changes how the game is played. Right now transportation, building HABs, and running logistics is a pain in the ass. No one likes running miles to get places, and driving logis/trucks still takes awhile on large maps (especially with bumpy terrain) Since HABs require a lot of coordination and time, in public games few are built, and generally are built directly on CAPs. Few flanking/tactical FOBs are ever built Usually the team has only one dedicated logistics runner, and sometimes there isn't even one on many public servers! In order to resolve these current problems the developers have made rallies more prevalent since they are easier to place, makes transportation easier, and allow for flanking. However, these super powerful rallies have their downfalls Rallies greatly lowers the value of survival (since you always have a nearby backup spawn) Rallies make squad wipes pretty rare (especially with buddy rally) Rallies encourage the spawn, gun, die, rinse and repeat methodology Rallies reduces the impact of the entire teamwork system that Squad is largely based on since they don't require any coordination with the rest of your team With the introduction of helicopters, however, the game no longer needs these super powerful rallies anymore! Helicopters essentially provide everything that rallies do, and don't come with all the negative pitfalls! Rallies can, and should, be nerfed to compensate for addition of choppers. Instead, the game will focus more around building HABs rather than rallies for spawning. Yes, at first everyone will be trying to fly and whole Squads will get wiped by bad pilots, but in due time it will improve. Also, helicopters will also add a great immersion factor to the game, and will make transportation a lot more exhilarating. TLDR; Helicopters will replace a lot of the mechanics that rallies provide, and thus allow for a better gameplay experience.
  11. I completely agree with how choppers will make tactics and maneuvering much better. Not only should they get rid of the buddy rally, but rallies overall should get a nerf, because even then they will be overpowered with choppers. Maybe they can make them like in PR, where FOBs have large overrun radii, and Rallys are difficult to place. As you said, "dead dead" would actually be a thing, rather than just continually respawning at nearby rallies. Additionally, it would be a greater emphasis on establishing hidden FOBs as spawn points.
  12. I think Nerfing Rally Points is a bad idea

    Guys, I have a theory that I think is worth noting. It is important to remember the devs are not just trying to develop a new game, but also a new community. If you take a game with the complexity of Project Reality and throw it at the maturity of the current player-base (maturity as in experience, not competency), it wouldn't work. The game would be chaos, most people will get frustrated and stop playing. The devs realize this; so they have been gradually making it more and more complex since early access. Every update has made the game closer and closer to Project Reality; Vehicles & Logistics V7, HABs V9, IFVs V10/11, revamped FOB Mechanics V12+Tanks. By keeping the game more arcady in the early stages they are attracting a larger audience. Once they get players hooked, they are then slowly introducing them to more features. This is developing a mature playerbase. Its almost like learning a new language. You can't go walking into Mexico and expect to learn Spanish overnight, you won't understand a thing. It has to be taught by beginning with the basics of vocabulary, and then gradually getting more advanced from there. Squad is the same way, you throw a super advanced game at a new community too quick it will scare em all away. It has to be introduced one step at a time. I am excited for V12 because it will be another step towards PRs gameplay. Yeah, people whine and moan when a new patch comes out that introduces punishing mechanics, but after a couple months the meta adjusts and people learn that the game is actually better. I am sure in a future patch rallys will finally get nerfed, but V12 isn't the right time for it. It will take some time for the community to figure out the new FOB mechanics meta. So, V13 is therefore probably a better time to nerf rallies, also since Helis will get introduced and transportation will be easier.
  13. How to slow the gameplay

    I want this because it has been tried and tested in PR for 8 years and works very well. Yes Yes The whole purpose is to shift away from Rallys being the main method of spawning. They should only be used to Rally a Squad up before a fight. FOBs should be the main source of spawns. Thus, logistics/teamwork will become a more significant aspect of the game. One of the reasons why Squad members go around doing their own thing is because the game gives them the freedom to do so. Since they are not penalized for dying (because they can just respawn at the nearby rally), they go lonewolfing around, die, respawn, rinse and repeat. If the only place they can respawn is at a FOB 100m away, they will have to stick with the Squad, otherwise be punished. Also, Project Reality used to have the Rally system currently in place, then in v0.9 they overhauled FOBs/Rallys, and this exact conversation was had. Here are some pertinent threads: http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-bf2-general-discussion/74025-rally-point-confusion.html http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-bf2-general-discussion/75045-v0-9-rally-system-loving.html At the end of the day the new system was determined better, and has been in the game ever since.
  14. How to slow the gameplay

    Now the question is, who is going to mod it? and host it?
  15. How to slow the gameplay

    You know what would be really interesting, if someone made a quick mod with these mechanics, and we did some playtests to see what it would be like. I would do it, but I don't have much experience modding + tried downloading the SDK and it kept on crashing since my computer isn't good enough. I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to mod a map so that: If two enemies are directly in/around a FOB you can't spawn at it. Requires 2 Squad Members + Leader to drop Rally Rally Disappears after 60s unless within 150m from Friendly FOB, Flag, or APC. (Maybe first implementation uses just friendly FOB/Flags). 5 minute cool down on rally. If enemies walk within 50m of rally, rally disappears. Rally provides indefinite spawns as long as active. I would implement this on a map similar to PR (Fools Road/Mestia?), and would be interested to see how gameplay compares to PR. I am sure if we told a bunch of people on the PR forums we are doing this they would join in for a playtest.
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